Posted on 07/20/2010 9:39:46 AM PDT by coffee260
Fellow Freepers this isn't a drill or a joke. This is real life, life or death. Any advise you have I need.
First the short version. My wife of 2 months and high school sweetheart came out of an abusive marriage of 13 years. The ex-husband is like no other person I have ever witnessed with regard to his manipulative and mentally abusive behavior towards his ex, my wife, and their 2 girls, 5 and 9 years old. Not to mention every single solitary person with whom he acquaints himself has the very same story. But before I give detail, let me assure you that I know what you are thinking. That I'm just a jealous husband who wants to protect his wife. When I first learned about my wifes prior relationship I too took everything she said with skepticism. I thought she just hates the guy and is exaggerating how bad he really is. Well that was short lived. The guy is indescribable, but the unedited letter that follows sent to him by a friend of his sums him up really well. [Please ignore the rough draft as it's the only copy I have.]
"Scott, It is in your best intrest to read this letter in it entirety as there are alot of things being covered. I know you and that you skim over things and pretend to have paid attention but now is no time for that. I want it also known by you that copies of this letter are being sent to all parties needed to be alerted to these situations and will all be listed at the end of this letter. As you know we met on thanksgiving volunterring at the church that is where this all began,we exchanged stories and had much in common,i was a new christian and also new to the area you explained you had attended the church for 10 years and been in business here for 26 years. I explained i had just returned from living 5 years in costa rica,mostly leaving the states because i was sick of being let down by people and thier greedy ways,i explained i had partnered up with someone here and when i revealed their name ,you explained that you knew the person well and that i should seperate immediatly from him in our contracting business explaining that "this was what you did"for a living and because my partner failed to file the proper paperwork i had no case and no one to complain to. So i cut my losses,which i felt were substantial and moved on. As we spoke more i explained what i had done previously as a professional athelete and the sponsors i had ,my marketing experience and taking these companies including rock star energy to where it is currently.Also knowing i was an A class contractor and the experience i had in costa rica we spent lots of time talking in your office and suggested we join forces as you had an energy drink company that needed marketing ,tons of connections for construction jobs and were very intrested in me taking you to costa rica and showing you what i had going and how things work. I expressed for me that would be perfect as all i want to do is the work and have someone else deal with the money and just give me what is mine as i was sick of being burned and seeing what people will do for money. You covered again that you were alone too as everyone had always ripped you off,you were a super christian and a CPA for 26 years and everything would be rosey if i just let you do what you do and i do what i do.Meaning i would be the face and you would guide the finances behind the scenes. The first part of the deal was that i would promote and teach you how to market for the energy drink company show you the system i had for using social networking sites and word of mouth through the circles i ran in always being at the gym or beach and so forth. Then it turned out that you needed the first construction i would do to be at your house. Convieniently just at that time you had been so pumped for the previous weeks making plans excited about all i was doing and where we were going,talking about life,christ, morals, principals making a friendship . Out of nowhere you went on a major down spiral and became very depressed,just so happened there was a regeneration meeting at church that night and i invited you. That night you came out and told everyone you had planned to kill yourself that day and by the grace of god i had been talkin to you and brought you to the meeting and that interupted your plan. Needlless to say from that point on everything became about you and keeping you stable,you would go up and down and up and down making crazy threats of suicide and even killing your kids and ex wife. You started adding more and more things to be done to the house planned on purchasing different cars everyday and making other stupid puchases.I thought you were just a very hurt man and stood by and advised you on everything. I would hear you make crazy calls to your ex many times daily and make every excuse to go by her house,i listened to you vent on her and her new husband your parents ,ex partners brothers,you name it daily it was always something and it was all about scott and his needs and all the problems you spoke of were always everyone elses fault. Then just as fast as it came it went,everything was fine you apologized to me and thanked me for not leaving you which left me further commited to helping you.My girlfriend was always there and soon we were with you 24 hours a day practicly we watched you go up and down make stupid decisions and had to be around everytime you had your kids because you were unstable and had no idea how to be a dad becase all you cared about is your money and your image. Against all my advice you then pulled in your ex wife to be a partner in our business because as it turns out your network marketing companies were all her doing and she actually was the one that handled all of your things ,you couldnt even book your own plane tickets and i just found it weird that you still called her your wife and bothered her many times daily for the stupidest of things ,that is when i said i need to have a meeting with this lady one on one or all business tie would be severed. I was starting to reflect and look at things, that they never were getting done,i have a huge laundry list of things that you started and never finished that will come out later. I met with kelly for lunch and she explained to me she neede money to live so she would come back in the business and i asked her if she could do it remotley because to me it seemed a way for you to keep a hold on her.she didnt say much which i would later find was because to this day she is in fear for her life. Anyway in the middle of all this the time had arrived for me to make my trip to costa rica to look for land and investment opportunities.You expressed that you were so sick of accounting and this lifestyle that would i take you ? Show you what i know and give you a chance to have part in it. We then went to costa rica and as we were looking at land and things a person i had worked with before offered me an oppurtunity to invest in his hotel,you immediatly stepped foward and tried to take control and asked if you could be in.After seeing your daily behavior and your ups and downs it was decided you should be not involved.i pulled you aside at that time and told you i will always be your friend but i need not be involved with you in any business dealings as you were unstable and i couldnt count on you from day to day,little did i know that vinnie and his wife could overhear our conversation.You begged and pleaded to me for another chance even broke down crying which i have seen you do at least a hundred time since then. You apologized to vinnie and his wife and asked if you could be in and we set up the terms and we would be 20 % owners for 100k and we agreed on payment terms.from that second foward you walked around the hotel like you owned the place and as usual were pretending to call all the shots,we just laughed it off and said "thats just scott"knowing full well you knew not a word of spanish or business operations in costa rica. we decided that we would have you do what you do"the accounting" and vinnie his wife and i would run the rest ,bar,hotel do the marketing and all the other things .
i started a company which i named costal international investments and in not being greedy we decided to split the company 50/50 and of course you dealt with all the funds and incorperation and all those things.At this point i knew for sure you were crazy but still trusted you did the right things as we talked daily about your christian principals and your duty to have accountability as you are a cpa and held to certain legal and moral obligations. You had by this point come to take it for granted that i was doing everything for you not only for our business but for your personal life to ,organizing all work to be done on your home being there to listen to your problems ,helping with your kids...on and on
Our partner showed up from costa rica and he and i knowing what the contents of the contract should be wrote the outline but you, being how you are took full control and had to write it your way.You wrote the contract set up the payment scheudule and set it up so that we would also be responsible for the debt of the hotel if any was incured the contract was done here and then registered in costa rica as to cover legal bases in both places,we sat there and asked you again if you were sure you wanted to do this and became agitated with us and said quit asking me that!!! Vinnie retured to costa rica and he and i maintained regular contact ,i begged you on several occasions to call him but you were always to busy(it is reflected in phone records that the only attempts you made to call him were on july 5 ,10 days before payment was due) Anyway around that same time i started to feel things were extra weird with youand i personally became stressed out and started to ask alot of questions which you always danced around.I started to ask you about money as i never recieved a dime in cash from you,i even had to ask you everytime i needed gas because you said it had to be done by credit card so it could be tracked through our company.i said i wanted jeep transfered in my name so i could take it to costa rica and you said it had a loan still so i couldnt transfer it because it had to have full coverage and had to be paid off.You said you were paying it down with the rev money ,you also said all the funds were in the costal account to make the payments and all was good,you also stated that i now had company health insurance and that was a cost too just trust you and let you handle it.i also asked about how im gonna do my taxes and you explained it would all run through my company and you had it handled and that you were the expert stating if i did it any other way i would pay social security that i was never gonna see and you tell all your clients not to pay it. I witnessed alot more crazy behavior and abuse to all those close to you.Your employees your kids me people in the church. I strated recieving several calls from your kids crying saying they didnt wanna be made to go to your house,and could i please be there to help them if they had to go. People from the church were asking me why you refused to do the backround checks and act so weird. Clients of yours would call me and ask why they should stay with you ?were concerned that you always talked about how good you were,but yet they would get audited and had to use you to get them out of it because you were the only one that knew how you fooled the irs and if they leave they are gonna pay huge fines. In our personal lives i realized you blew off all my questions and concerns and always talked only about yourself I witnessed you getting even worse and manipulative to your kids always asking them about mom and andy,talking loud and mean to them even putting your 9 year old daughter out on the street among many other things. At this point i felt a major screwing coming on and saw the light,i went to the pastors at church for counsel and set up for you to have private counseling which you went to once bullshitted them and never went back. Everywhere we went you were the loudest person always wanting attention and became unbearably embarrasing. I was watching and catching you in lies all the time and decided cover my own ass.Iheard you make more threats about hurting this or that person,continually i have to wonder if you are serious about killing yourself and others. i plainly watched you manipulate every situation and when it took till july 5 for you to call vinnie i saw what was coming and hired a lawyer and people to follow you to see if you were telling the truth. Everytime vinnie called you he also sent an email to confirm and have tracking as expected you missed your payment and made excuses that you were sick or not in the office when in fact i have proof of you in the office not taking his calls when you said you were out on appointments ,you all around town when you said you were deathly ill,even eating dinner with your daughter,also catching you fabricating stories at the bank and several other locations you are so loud it was easy for them to get,and the last straw was when i followed you home you pulled in the driveway and told me you were out on appointments. i purposely have stayed away from you for the last 2 weeks just because of how devistated i am at what i know n now. Also knowing that you were going to default on your deal(which will be shown youve done several times)i had a lawyer research my company which i thought up ,named and acuired the investment, and found both good and bad news. The bad news is the company is going to have to pay the remaining 80k in default plus 20% of the million dollar debt plus whatever losses he suffered as he spent his money on improvments expecting to survive on the money he had coming in from this contract The good news is that you not only put the company all in your name so i am not liable but that you changed the name of an existing company to do so which is illegal and so are many other things you do I am very hurt that you hide behind chrisianity but are a liar a thief a master manipulator and a full blown narcisist. I have spent the last 6 months giving you everything both business and personal and you have done me like this and of course i will be left with nothing. also come to find out it is for just this reason that you dont have a cent ,all the things you have are in your ex wifes name ,all the credit cards you use are hers. Everything about you is a lie and you use people I again held it together to tolerate you in your driveway and listened to you make threats now to vinnie and i have got more calls from your girls crying and begging not to be made to go there kellys stories are more than true and she has to live in fear everday ,you forced her to sign the divorce the way you set it up and she complied because she is in constant fear that you will kill her and the kids which i and sheri have personally heard you say. i want you to know that i feel you are a dangerous person to yourself and anyone around you and you need immediate help. copies of this letter along with other letters are being sent to all the proper authorities the police,kellys lawyer and ,child protective services,letters from your clients to the cpa board for complaints on your license,the insurance company to prove fraudulant activities,the bank where you do illegal transactions,and to the people in church who know whats going on here we have all the proof we need in all these matters,plus to tracy for the way you speak about her . and your neighbors are aware as they are family of church members. all the truth is gonna come out in court,down to the fact that you girls dont even have their own rooms and you say tracy performs sexual favors for rent and that her probation people come by ehen the kids are there.You stole from me wasted my time and took our friendship for granted we are also calling the police to get an order of protection for us and the girls and kelly,calling the authorities to have you commited and many other things. i will at least give you the courtesy to get yourself an hour to be prepared insted of being sneaky as you are and going behind peoples backs. you took alot from people and me and i will accept that loss but cant continue to let you do what you do to your kids and others that are scared of you which i am not!!!!!im ready for you and know your game. would love to see what you have to say will give you 30 mins to respond and see what you would do to make it any better ,no matter what you say i feel it will all be lies anyway,you cost me everything and almost got me sued for everthing i ever would have I
What do I do? Because I have tried to stay out this for the girls' sake. The urgency is because the letter above, I just learned, was sent to him and all hell is about to break loose.
I fear if the authorities do not do something to him and protect my wife, I will. And I will use deadly force. In other words, I will shoot to kill at the first sign of him becoming a danger to my family.
You might think I'm crazy for saying this, but I don't hate him or am even mad at him. I am a Christian and I pray for him every chance I get.
First, if you are afraid that you will kill him on sight, lock your guns up and give the key to your best friend.
Second, call the cops BEFORE you call a lawyer. Judges look at the order in which you do things.
Finally, try to get a restraining order filed that protects you and your family.
I couldn’t read it.
Reformat
Thank you. The reason I have concerns about lethal force is because he has said on many occasions that when his life starts to crumble that he will commit murder suicide and a restraining order will not stop him. I’m fearful of a confrontation.
Look, I know you are probably thinking this guy will, at some point, become reasonable. That’s what I thought in the beginning. And I don’t want to give up on any hope he would be reasonable. But just like I didn’t know just how bad this man really is, I suspect readers of this post have the same impression.
Lets put it like this. I am willing to say with 100% certainty that this man will not stop being so evil. Yes evil. There is no other way to describe him. And please know I am not trying to justify my actions. I’m simply tired of watching my wife live in fear of this guy. And any good advise from Freepers is greatly appreciated.
You should be able to apply for a conceal and carry License. Get one.
I also advise you to document date and time of every threat, attempts at intimidation, References to violence, etc.
I've dealt with a man like this in my past...he was tough until he saw his threats were going to be challenged. In my case, once he figured out his death threats didn' work, he stopped them. Didn't;t stop me from making sure I was protected.
Finally, Go get some target practice in. Seriously. If something does happen, you and your wife need to be able to hit the large part of a human body.
I doubt the cops will do much except to tell them to get a restraining order. They won’t act unless he does something. The best thing to do is just move away.
People like him never give up. I’ve seen similar
situations and it didn’t end until they moved away.
Wife just got back from the magistrates office. They are not going to give her a protective order. They said she couldn’t get one unless she was in immediate danger. To whit she replied, “How many people call ahead and inform their victim they are on their way to kill them?” So plan A was a failure. On to plan B.
One other thing, I can see the “made for tv” version of events unfolding right in front of me. The battered ex-wife tries the justice system and they let her down. She takes matters into her own hands or he does commit murder suicide and Oreilly runs a story on how all the signs were there to stop this tragic event. Yada Yada Yada
Hire an armed security team? If they’re overseas, hire a dozen kids or so to have eyes on the property/car/house with cell phones...
Have your wife conceal carry. Three people in a group at all times, have a private security detail trail this guy and if he gets close, alert everyone.
Install tracking software on kids and wife’s phones.
Move.
Overkill? Not sure.
Just a few thoughts...
She tried for the restraining order. That should be on record. You might go to a lawyer or the police and ask for advice, so that they are aware that he is dangerous. Try to avoid a confrontation with him if possible. We don't want you ending up in jail and him going free. In the meantime, prayers of protection for you and your family.
Great stuff.
Imagine this. You turn on the television to watch some Fox News. You know, they have the best looking anchors, right? Megyn Kelly teases a story about how a crazed ex-husband shoots his ex-wife, his 2 little girls who were only 5 and 9 years old, and then shoots himself.
Imagine you are thinking to yourself, what a tragedy but not uncommon these days. Now imagine you find out that everything was done to stop this crazed man from doing what he said on many many occasions he would do, murder suicide. Then imagine you find out the law in VA doesn’t protect people from harm unless the killer calls their victim with a heads up of his ETA and method of choice. Then there’s the proverbial grieving spouse being trotted out to lobby to change the law after the fact and get it named after the deceased.
News Flash!!! None of that has to come true. Anybody with some influence out there can contact me. I’ll listen.
Thank you WVNan, I’ll take your advise. Tomorrow we see her lawyer. I’ll let you know how that goes.
Prayers for all of you. Please keep us informed, as I will now be worried until this is resolved.
Here is what readers can’t get from a website posting. They can’t get the feeling one has of helplessness and frustration.
I guess deep down inside I wish I’d get a call from say, Greta Van Susteren or Bill Oreilly saying they want to help stop this crazy guy before something happens.
I know...fat chance.
Coffee, first let me make VERY clear I am not ANY sort of expert. But my father was a narcissistic sociopath, and my Mom and I went through the same experience of NOBODY would believe us, “he couldn’t be THAT bad.”
In my completely UNEXPERT, un-degreed opinion, you are absolutely right to realize that this letter may provoke a catastrophic meltdown. The person who wrote the letter was ex-hubby’s latest charm conquest and his current source of narcissistic supply. Just losing control over the letter writer would be a huge crisis for the narcissist, but HE has apparently also stripped away the mask with everyone: business partners, clients, professional organizations, church, etc. You are right that this has the potential to cause EXTREMELY dangerous behavior from the narcissist. In his world, it’s probably THE worst thing he could have imagined.
I personally would advise BOTH the letter writer AND your family to not be ANYWHERE where you normally would be during the next few days/week as this jerk realizes his world has crashed. Far better to not be around when this guy explodes.
Go stay with friends or relatives or just a hotel out of state for a week: but make absolutely sure it is not someone HE would think of to go looking for her, in other words, don’t go stay with her sister if that’s the first place he’d look for her and the kids (or even the sixth place!). Tell NO ONE, not neighbors or co-workers exactly where you are, a charming narcissist can get this info from an unsuspecting neighbor (or even a wary neighbor, there is always some plausible story overcome resistance— this is the narcissist’s way of life, getting people to trust them!). Tell the neighbor or casual friend who’s looking after your dogs (or mail, or whatever) that you’ve gone to Disneyworld or someplace like that so they CAN”T accidentally let your whereabouts slip. And WARN whatever relatives/friends the ex would first go looking for her with that this guy is possibly extra dangerous due to the crisis (to him) of this letter. They don’t need to know all the details, but they should have a heads up that if he comes around, he may be dangerous.
This may seem drastic, but being nowhere near his reach for a few days or couple of weeks while he is in the most extreme emotional meltdown and looking to lash out, is ABSOLUTELY prudent with this sort of person. If you all can’t leave, send the wife and kids away someplace ABSOLUTELY secret and YOU go live with a friend or in a local hotel for a week, don’t be anywhere near your normal routine.
In my completely UNexpert opinion, leaving for a while is the sanest, safest course. Do not sit around waiting to be on the news, your fears are very reasonable. Do not waste time trying to get normal people or authorities to understand, they CANNOT — just get your family to a safe place for a while.
Some of the advice people are giving you is far more appropriate for life AFTER the initial meltdown is past: lawyers, weapons, restraining orders, armed guards, permanent move, etc. Worry about THOSE options in a few days, but if the ex-hubby has already received this letter, right now —TODAY!!— just do EVERYTHING you can to avoid him right now and for the IMMEDIATE future, and THEN start planning long-term strategies.
I’m really sorry, it’s not fair, not at all — but you MUST get your wife and kids FAR away from his reach at this very critical moment. Now, TODAY. HIS immediate emotional crisis is NOT going to wait for your rational plans. No, it’s not fair. But you must stay safe. You and your family will be in my prayers.
I'm thinking nothing of the kind. From the rambling nature of his letter, he is clearly dissembling and is breaking down. Under those circumstances, there is no guarantee what he will or won't do and neither you, a restraining order or the police can/will do anything to stop him from doing something crazy until he does something crazy. Which means that your options are limited.
As others have suggested, I would send the wife and family elsewhere (if you can) until he does his "something crazy" whatever that may be. My more immediate concern is for your safety. You indicated that you could or would kill him. You sound like you don't want to be a murderer, but you also recognize that this guy isn't going to sit around holding hands and singing a few choruses of "Kumbaya" with you or your wife in order to settle his issues, so you need options.
The best option would be for him to spend some time working with a therapist to understand his behaviors and issues. If you sufficiently convey the threat to the police (and/or the DA), he could be involuntarily committed to an institution for up to 72 hours for evaluation. After that, assuming that the facility felt he was a danger to himself or others, he could be held longer. Were I you, I might try to go that route. This guy seems to be emotionally unstable and barely under control. It doesn't appear as though it will take much to push him over the edge.
My suggestion that you lock your guns up was not a facetious one, it was for your protection. Passions sound as though they are running high and one thing leads to another VERY quickly where passion is concerned. Level heads don't come along until AFTER the deed is done and, by then, it could be too late for either you or him to back up and reverse what has happened. That's NOT the position that you want to be in so, your best move is to protect yourself first. Take every possible step to protect yourself and limit your involvement and, by the same token, that should also allow you to be protecting your wife and kids. She doesn't want to take her kids to prison to visit you one weekend per month, (nor do you want to be there!)and she also doesn't want to take her children to visit their dad in the cemetary.
“May I add: 5) Be careful about posting info about extremely personal and potentially litigous nature?”
This is the 21st Century with technology not available in the past. It is not wrong for an individual to post on a forum asking for input... the poster did not expose who he was, his family or their location, nor the identity of the person posting or the perpetrator of all the problems.
There is a chance that someone from the church, business, etc. could surmise who these people are, but the chances of that are remote and the poster did not break the law in any way (slander, threats, etc.).
I need to clear up something I wrote in the second to last paragraph of my post where I wrote, “And I will use deadly force. In other words, I will shoot to kill at the first sign of him becoming a danger to my family.”
What I should have wrote instead, and what I meant and still mean, was “I will Only use any means to protect my family if there is eminent danger, until the threat is no longer valid.”
I guess I just prefer keeping my own personal business of this type of nature to myself, and hope that others would as well. But I forget, we live in the facebook age where people update their status every five minutes and tweet the number of toilet sheets they use when they go to the bathroom.
I get your sarcasm, and there is definitely too much info out there, but I think this guy used the technology correctly (asking for help anonymously on a board). That is one of the benefits of what is available.... getting help from those outside the perimeter of your normal circle. Outsiders probably have the ability to be a little more unbiased and might have even experienced the same difficulty and may give good advice.
Just my opinion.
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