Posted on 07/09/2010 4:03:53 PM PDT by curiosity
One of the reasons birthers demand to see Obama's long-form birth certificate (as opposed to the short form already released) is that only the long-form lists the hospital.
Why is the hospital important? Well, birthers claim that if his birth was registered as having taken place at home, then it opens up the possibility that his birth was registered fraudulantly. That is, if he were born in Kenya, his grandma could have gone down to the local registrar, committed perjury by swearing she whitnessed his birth at home in Hawaii, and obtained a birth certificate saying he was born in Hawaii.
Now why would Grandma Dunham do such a thing? Well, birthers say in order to secure US citizenship for her grandson. They correctly point out that Mama Obama was too young to pass on US citizenship to her son automatically had he been born abroad. Therefore, birthers argue, to make sure Bambi got the benefits of US citizenship, Granny risked her freedom and career and committed perjury on his behalf.
There's a gaping hole in this story which birthers have yet to address: the fraud was unnecessary.
While it's true Obama would not be born a US citizen had be been born in Kenya, under section 101 and Title II section 205 of the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952, in effect at the time, as the minor child of a US citizen, Obama was entitled to a non-quota immigrant visa to enter the US.
Once back in the states, under Title III, section 322 Bambi would be eligible for natuarlization.
So you see, even if Obama were born in Kenya, it was possible to secure his citizenship through perfectly legal means. And no, it was not uncertain because the law explicitly presumed a child of "tender years" would be of good moral character. There were simply no grounds under the law to deny him citizenship once his mother petitioned for it on his behalf.
Yes, it probably would have taken some time for the government to precess the paperwork, maybe a couple years, but who cares? While waiting, Barry would be a permanent resident living in Hawaii with his mom, eligible for virtually all the rights and benefits that go with US citizenship.
So help me out, birthers. If there was no need to fraudulantly register Bambi's birth in Hawaii, what was Grandma Dunham's motive?
A few birthers have said it was to avoid the hassle of naturalization. Okay, let's take that as given.
So Stanely drops Barry in Kenya and sends a wire to grandma, who goes to the local registrar and, after committing perjury, gets a US birth certificate for her grandson. She then sends it to her daughter Kenya by whatever expensive means were available at the time. Great. Now what?
How does that help little Barry? He's still in Kenya and has no papers that would get him admitted to the US. A birth certificate doesn't help. He needs a passport or visa. He can't use the birth certificate for that, either, because a child born in the USA needs to apply for his passport before leaving the country, not afterward. Attempting to use it for this purpose at the US consolate in Kenya would have triggered an investigation and likely uncovered granny's fraud.
So tell me, birthers, what exactly did Grandma Dunham accomplish by committing perjury?
Now compare that to the legal way. Stanley drops litttle barry. She takes her passport and his birth certificate to the US consolate, and obtains a Declaration of Birth of a Child to a US Citizen Abroad. With that document she can get him a non-quota immigrant visa and enter the US without any trouble.
Seems to me the legal way would have involved much less hassle and stress.
So help me out, birthers. What am I missing?
“Passport records do not include evidence of travel such as entrance/exit stamps, visas, residence permits, etc., since this information is entered into the passport book after it is issued.”
http://travel.state.gov/passport/npic/npic_872.html
Or perhaps you information on this question is more accurate than the actual State Department.
LOL
Well said.
I too am wondering why he mentioned Mitt.
May7be it would be easier to ask where has fraud NOT been used for Obama’s benefit.
That is so two years ago.
Don’t worry. We’re coming for you. Just have to warm up the WayBack Machine first.
They are of no relevance to Barack Obama.
But would be to Barry Soetoro.
Actually, I commend you. Look how many responses you got without having to respond to any.
Brilliant - I mean that sincerely.
NATURAL BORN CITIZEN. Investigate it, and learn.
Perjury, lol? When was poor old Toots put on trial?
yeah....I’m still waiting....
Wonder how long it will take him to make up an excuse for Nancy Pelosi’s fraud.....
I am fully aware of that, but thanks anyway.
Aw, humor the dinosaur. ;-)
My passport has entry and exit stamps for every country visited including Mexico and Canada entering Mexico from Japan and Canada from Saudi Arabia. Visa Cards. (not the credit cards) are sometimes used for Sub Rosa destinations where you don’t want the Passport stamped.
barbra ann
1. The stories, accounts, and "evidence" offered by Obama and his people with regards to his birth in Hawaii are true and irrefutable.
- OR -
2. The records, stories, and "evidence" are not correct.
In that case, someone or someone(s) committed fraud in connection with the account of, and most likely, records of Barack Obama Jr's birth.
I tend to believe, based on the history of lies and fraud of Obama and those surrounding him, including his family, that there has been a concerted effort to hide the truth with regards to the circumstances of Mr. Obama's birth and background.
With the absence of any credible evidence from the Obama team, we are left only to speculate.
When did the fraud begin? Who was involved? What were the motives of the fraudsters? Why were they willing to risk being discovered (at least) and (at most) perjury, perhaps even jail time, to perpetrate this fraud?
What do we know for sure?
1. In 1961, there was a newborn baby "Barack Obama Jr." who required documentation.
We do not know if this child was born in Hawaii or elsewhere. We do not even know if this child was in Hawaii at the time. (A phone call could have been made to the newspapers by his parents, grandparents or another interested party.)
2. Someone placed a birth announcement in the local newspaper declaring that a child was born to Mr. and Mrs. Barack Obama (Sr).
Was the child really theirs? (They could have claimed it to be their own in order to avoid a long and bureaucratic adoption process and get U.S. citizenship--not necessarily "natural born"--for the child.)
Here's another theory:
In 1961, somebody had a half-white, half-black baby and recruited Barack Obama Sr. and Stanley Ann Dunham to claim it was born to them, avoiding the need to do the extra paperwork required for a (possibly foreign) adoption.
Fact: Barack Obama Sr. was married to another woman in Africa at the time of his alleged marriage to Stanley Ann Dunham in Hawaii.
Fraud 1: Barack Obama Sr. did not tell Ms. Dunham that he was already married. He could have been arrested on bigamy charges. But if he did tell her . . .
Fraud 2: Ann and Barack Sr. did not tell Ms. Dunham's parents of his concurrent marital status. If they did, then . . .
Fraud 3: The Dunhams allowed the "marriage" to go through, knowing that it was a sham, or at least illegal. Or perhaps . . .
Fraud 4: Barack Sr. and Stanley Ann were never really married. They just said they were in order to get someone else's child a "green card" by exploiting Hawaii's lax requirements for claiming "birth" in the state at the time.
One way or another, there was fraud surrounding the circumstances of Mr. Obama's birth. I do not blame the child. It was not his fault. But the cover-up is certainly Mr. Obama's responsibility.
“Passport records do not include evidence of travel such as entrance/exit stamps, visas, residence permits, etc., since this information is entered into the passport book after it is issued.”
That is what the US State Department says.
What we do know is very few people knew in 1961 about the ability to immigrate and naturalize her child. We do know her mother was living in Hawaii and could have easily learned abvout their easy BC process. Then what if Obie Sr objected and refused to let her leave Kenya or did he want nothing to do with Obie jr? Did she enlist help from grandma and went with the easier to get Hawaiian BC? Who knows what is in the mind of an 18 year old girl in her situation.
What we are sure of is that Obie is hiding something and fighting to keep the truth from being known. The question is why. Don't ask birthers why they think he might not have been born in Hawaii, demand that he prove it. Demand that he open up his school records. Quit going along with his deception and secrecy. This is the (supposed) President of the United States and we have citizens have a right and duty to be informed about his eligibility. If Congress, The Courts and News media fail to act then it is up to us as the last line of defense and the real owners and stakeholders of this government to do the job that they failed to do. I would be every bit as concerned had McCain been elected President. Whether we have a valid enforceable Constitution or we don't, and Obam obviously is trying to tear it up. I for one do not intend to let him do so without a fight.
What about you why deride the birthers, why make excuses for Obama? Do you want the truth? Let him open up all his records and let the chips fall where they may instead of tearing the country apart with secrecy and adversarial actions, that is certainly not Presidential nor American. Methinks he doth protest too much and so do you._
“Once back in the states, under Title III, section 322 Bambi would be eligible for natuarlization”. “eligible for virtually all the rights and benefits that go with US citizenship.”
Not all citizens are eligable to be President.
I can’t believe that this had to be explained.
While waiting, Barry would be a permanent resident living in Hawaii with his mom, eligible for virtually all the rights and benefits that go with US citizenship.
______________________________________________________
Well that’s a lovely thought, kid...
and what would those “rights and benefits” have been in 1961 ???
Ten years later, in 1971, I was not “eligible for virtually all the rights and benefits that go with US citizenship” while I was “waiting” to become an American citizen...
And I was a member of the US military...
In fact BEFORE I ever got to enter the US to even start my “waiting” I had to swear I would not attempt to even apply for “virtually all the rights and benefits that go with US citizenship”
Among those were
voting privileges
government jobs
food stamps
welfare
free hospitalization
free medical care
free housing
free college tuition
and so on
I not only raised my right hand and swore I wouldnt I also had to sign to say I understood that I would or could be deported for doing so...
Now just what law passed between 1961 and 1971 denied me what Barry Soetoro so readily was granted ???
Did you do much research before you wrote this vanity ???
:)
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