Posted on 04/28/2010 4:05:19 PM PDT by mukraker
I have a question I’d like to ask of my fellow Freepers.
Would anything short of deportation of illegal immigrants still be considered amnesty?
Realistically and logistically, how are we going to deport 12+ million illegal aliens? What can actually be done?
A partial solution, one that I think would work, would be to allow anyone who is here illegally to come forward, on their own accord, by a date certain, and admit they are here illegally. They would appear in a court of law, and plead guilty to entering the country illegally, or overstaying their visas, or whatever the circumstances as to why they are here illegally requires.
The court would find them guilty of a felony, but the lowest class of felony.
The mandatory punishment would include 1) lifetime probation, felonious violation of which would be immediately punishable by deportation; 2) payment of a substantial fine (say $5,000); and, 3) a lifetime prohibition from attaining U.S. citizenship.
The individual would then be allowed to remain in the country legally, but could never become a citizen, could never vote, and would face immediate deportation if they commit another felony. They would become permanent resident aliens, legal aliens, upon payment of the $5,000 fine and verification of compliance with the other terms of the punishment.
I don’t claim that this would be a perfect solution, but I think it just might be part of the solution. It provides an incentive for illegals to come forward and be identified, but also imposes punishment for the crime they have committed by being here illegally. And it prohibits those people from ever becoming legal U.S. citizens.
I welcome your thoughts.
Right, but not every metro-rail rider gets a perfunctory administrative hearing before they board, unlike illegals. And, unless you replace the entire Supreme Court, that's not going to change.
As I pointed out in another post, if you wanted to get it done in five years, you're talking about well over 6K people daily, everyday including Sunday. It would paralyze our court system for half a decade.
Wrong question. Shouldn't be "Why not" but rather "Why"; as in: "Why reward illegal behavior?"
I fully support legal immigration. America is a land of immigrants. As Bill Murray said, "We're the wretched refuse" of the world. But we're Americans.
Yes, enforce the law. Yes, eliminate welfare for illegals. Yes, secure the border. etc
I'm just trying to figure out a solution as to the illegals who are here already, living their lives among their neighbors, peacefully.
Kids like the honors student I described earlier are the kind of immigrants we welcome to America, when they arrive legally. Businessmen who employ Americans are the kind of immigrants we welcome, when they come legally. The elderly neighborhood doctor who overstayed his visa years ago, who now operates a neighborhood clinic, the only one for 50 miles - do we deport him, too?
Do we throw these people out, or do we give them a second (and last) chance?
"A" implies "one", but there are several here. That's OK.
Would anything short of deportation of illegal immigrants still be considered amnesty?
Yes.
Realistically and logistically, how are we going to deport 12+ million illegal aliens?
One at a time if need be.
What can actually be done?
See my model immigration law in bold below.
A partial solution
is necessarily incomplete and therefore does not actually solve the problem. Like a band-aid on a compound fracture, it may look like a good effort but will not address the whole problem and may in fact ignore the worst of it.
one that I think would work
By your own admission, only partially...
would be to allow anyone who is here illegally to come forward, on their own accord, by a date certain, and admit they are here illegally...The court would find them guilty of a felony, but the lowest class of felony...The individual would then be allowed to remain in the country legally...They would become permanent resident aliens, legal aliens, upon payment of the $5,000 fine and verification of compliance with the other terms of the punishment.
Great. Now we have a permanent underclass of low-grade felons. THWT.
I don’t claim that this would be a perfect solution, but I think it just might be part of the solution. It provides an incentive for illegals to come forward and be identified, but also imposes punishment for the crime they have committed by being here illegally. And it prohibits those people from ever becoming legal U.S. citizens.
I welcome your thoughts.
Here they are: ExGeeEye's Model Law on Illegal "Immigration"
1. Illegal aliens are to be detained upon detection and deported within twenty-four hours.
2. Any citizen knowingly employing, sheltering, concealing, or otherwise assisting (other than emergency medical care) an illegal alien shall suffer forfeiture of all property, real and personal, all assets, businesses, business licenses, and any other thing except his/her physical freedom and two changes of clothing; after which he/she may seek employment and start over.
3. Any non-citizen legally resident, acting as described in para 2 above, shall suffer the same penalty and be deported to his/her country of origin within 48 hours.
4. Any public official, in any branch of government, at any level, who under color of clemency, legal discretion, or other official privilege, shall obstruct, alter, or modify the swift application and extent of paras 1-3 above to any degree soever, shall suffer the same penalty and be summarily removed from office.
(That’s to keep judges from saying “ooooo, that’s too harsh” and governors etc. from handing out pardons to business-owner buddies.)
Someone has said it would take decades to detect and deport the illegals we have, even if no more came in. It reminds me of a story about Napoleon Bonaparte, Emperor of France for a while. He once ordered that the roads of France were to be lined with trees, so that French soldiers could always march in the shade. His advisers replied that it would take twenty years to plant that many trees, and twenty more before they grew tall enough to provide the shade Napoleon sought. His answer to them is the same as mine to the people who talk about how long it would take to expel the illegals:
"Alors, il faut commencer toute de suite!"
"Well, then it must begin at once!"
“Realistically and logistically, how are we going to deport 12+ million illegal aliens?”
One bus load at a time... that’s how.
Moving them isn’t the problem. Identifying them is.
If the English could use boats to remove their troops from Dunkirk, then we could use our cars and trucks to remove these invaders from our country. I volunteer to take a few loads to the border.
They are here feloniously and need to be ejected from our country. Every one of them. All 20 million of them.
This will be the third second chance since Reagan. At some point the rule of law has to mean something. But why don’t we just let them stay and make a third world country out of us anyway? Obama is trying so hard to accomplish that, he could use the help. We don’t use our constitution anymore anyway so lets just be fair to everyone and let each person decide what our country should be. America will be over and then they will all stop coming anyway.
and of course you have reported these friends of yours to the proper US authorities? Alerted the Social Security Administration? The local county assiatence programs? etc? as to al this illegal activity your friends and their friends are up to, right?
Not Mexican, former Yugoslavians
Any change in status short of removal *is* allowing illegal aliens to benefit from their crimes. Deportation is returning them no better and no worse than before they committed their crimes.
HOWEVER,
Government-directed or forced deportation is not required. Cut off the government benefits like free “good samaritan” health care, unearned social security, public school educations, earned-income credits, etc.; prevent identity theft through e-verify; quit forcing banks to give them zero-money-down affirmative-action loans; stop giving their babies automatic citizenship, and chin-migration privileges; and end the promise of amnesty. They’ll go home on their own.
Most of them self-deported.
Made the job a helluva lot easier.
Never eligible to receive any benefits except "emergency" medical.
No family re-unification.
Can't own property.
No access to public universities.
Start there and it is not amnesty.
Are you married? Tell your wife to kiss you. And, if you are running for anything may I contribute? Of course you know your law is too sensible and therefore will be harsh, racist, and mean spirited.
The only way to punish Illegal Alienism is through deportation.
Anything besides deportation is a reward for breaking the law....letting illegals stay after they illegally entered is just rewarding them for breaking the law.
Well, I asked for it. lol Thanks
Oh no, it is VERY easy to identify them. Put an add in the paper for landscapers to come for an interview at any public building. Once all the respondents are there have ICE come in to verify citizenship. Just make sure there is a bus outside because they will all run out the door as soon as they see the ICE logo. I worked 10 years as a sales manager for a group of farmers that used mostly illegals (all with fake documents) for packing. ICE came twice in 10 years and everyone jumped out windows and doors leaving 2 or 3 of 25 packers. No, it is not hard at all to identify illegal workers.
For hearings I'd mount an examiner and a couple of lawyers on the back of a pickup truck and drive through the crowd.
Stop regularly, adjudicate, and that's it.
Plenty of lawyers around for this sort of thing (times are tough even for them), and pickups? Government OWNS GM. Just run off some new ones.
At the end of the program we hold a raffle ~ the illegals are the only ones who can enter, but you got 1 chance for a buck.
Winners get the trucks.
1 guy.
No doubt the administrative hearing can be reduced to something pretty much like an application review, and for enough money I could run 800 a month.
With 12,000,000 people a mere 1,000 examiners could process all of them in 15 months.
Certainly America does not want for qualified lawyers to handle this ~ must be at least that many exceedingly well trained Indian and Pakistani immigration lawyers in this country ~ just "insource/outsource" the job.
When have you ever known a public employee to do anything efficiently? Just asking.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.