Back in the ‘70s I usually saw figures from 60,000 to 140,000. This new report is the lowest number I’ve seen.
As an old friend on mine used to say:
“If you don’t start no s___, there won’t be no s___.”
It is really easy to spew such a dumb thing 65ish years after the fact, almost as if the end of the World War 2 in Europe was supposed to happen "on schedule."
I couldn’t care less.
If you start a war, there will be collateral damage. Moral of the story: Don’t start wars.
Dresden was a key rail nexus in front of the Red Army. Churchill had been pressing the head of Bomber Command “Bomber Harris” to aid the Red Army and Dresden was the next on the list. The same argument could be used about the Fire bombing of Tokyo where the casualties were much larger.
Oh, so if it had been done at the beginning of the war like the Nazi Blitz against civilians then it would have all been ok. The Germans received what they deserved for supporting, as a nation, der Fuerhrer just as the Japanese got what they deserved for supporting the Emperor and his genocidal generals.
Boo Hoo. I guess there aren't too many people left alive from that period that endured Hitler's romantic frolics over London? Liberal idiots and fascists need to be punched in the nose once every 30 minutes just because it's fun to watch them scream, and because they have no connection to reality.
Our enemies have become experts in prevailing against us by hiding behind civilians and playing the leftist media harpstrings against our “brutality” while they videotape hacking off prisoners heads for entertainment.
Our military should be free to use my philosophy. Don't mess with me, I'm old, tired, and have had a long day. I'm going to kill you as quickly as possible so I can wash up, eat dinner and take my nap.
The bombing was at the request of Stalin. (Geeez, we had to placate our greatest ally.) Dresden was packed with refugees from the east, including eastern Europeans fleeing the Russians. Yes, there was a rail head there but by the time the city was bombed most of the train traffic was at a standstill. It was more like continually kicking someone who was laying down on the ground. The war was at its end, it would have ended even if they ignored Dresden and left it as a pocket.
But at least it wasn't racist. The victims were caucasian.{/tomhanks}
It is a tragedy that so many people died, but to call Dresden a war crime is wrong.
If the excuse is that “the war was almost over”, then the true war crime is Germany’s refusal to surrender. By refusing to surrender, thus forcing the Allies to fight all the way to Berlin, Germany put its civilians at risk.
If the excuse is that “the city had no strategic value” is BS. Dresden is about 70 miles south of Berlin. Were the allies supposed to leave it untouched? The Soviets were only 50 miles from Berlin at the time. Were the allies supposed to let the Nazis have a backup headquarters?
Tragedy? Yes.
Part of the horror of all-out war? Yes.
War crime? Not even close.
Supposedly Stalin demanded it.
Anyway, I don’t care, the old saying applies, reap what you sow.
The commission seems to be relying to a large extent on historical records for their numbers. There is a good chance that they are missing most of the deceased since they would have been incinerated leaving no trace. Many others, as can be seen from the pictures of piles of naked dead, certainly could not be identified, especially in the chaos resulting from the fire and war.
It would be interesting to know how the report handles the refugee situation: Where were they staying? Were they camped out in the central park? How can their number be accurately estimated? Also of interest would be how the three quarter million residents of the destroyed metropolitan area escaped and where they went.
The British bombed twice during the night from a relatively low altitude with blockbuster bombs and incineriries. The US bombers came in the daylight and dropped many bombs in the rubble from a higher altitude. The British/US bombing altitude came about due to the use of the Norton bomb sight by the US.
The British have always lowballed any estimate of fatalitiesin Dresden, probably because they felt some pangs of conscience for firebombing the historic city, especially since the rail system suffered little damage from the whole operation. To some degree, the same might be said for the US, especially since it seems that the US may have been a reluctant participant. The Nazis would not be interested in publicizing large undefended losses. The Soviets did not occupy Dresden until the last day of the war (May 8) and were not interested in German civilian causalities. Thus I find that any documentation that this commission used needs to be closed examined.
That said, in the overall scheme of things, it is likely that the bombing of Dresden did not do too much to end the war, but we are all Monday morning quarterbacks and there is no way to change the past. The war needed to be won and over with. We may regret what happened, but it is not for us to stand in judgement of those who relieved us from the tyranny of the past.
By the time I get over celebrating Hiroshima and Nagasaki every year, I’m too fatigued to throw the Dresden party but I’ll knock one back tonight and celebrate the Allied victory.
Pop would have died flying fighter planes over Japan if not for the A-bombs, those cute little nuclear-fission devices.
Still, I loved the story about the Japanese guy who died at 96 last year after surviving both Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
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Thanks decimon.Germany's far-right groups claim that up to 500,000 people died. They say the bombing -- which unleashed a firestorm in the historic city when Nazi Germany was already close to defeat -- constituted a war crime.Dear Skinheads: to quote Andrew 'Dice' Clay, "if you can't party with the big boys, don't show up." |
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VolksWhiners
BTTT to read later
At least with the corpses all burned up, you don't get Nazi zombies.
By this time the Germans HAD IN FACT bombed civilians in several places, most notably London.
I’m glad we helped the Brits, and I wouldn’t care if it had been ten or a hundred times as many as it was died at Dresden, whatever the number.
Same with nukes at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Anything ending the war was a humanitarian act.
Not possible without the USA.
Truman did good.
Germany and Japan taken to their knees. Since they have come up a long way, to our credit and theirs as well.
(Compared to countries permanently on their knees; mainly Africa and islamic world.)
This is just when I was starting to anguish over this too...