Posted on 01/09/2009 8:14:14 AM PST by Homer_J_Simpson
Battleships! OK; here we go!
Naval weapons of WW2, one of my favorite topics.
First let’s talk about what was on hand in the US Navy, what was being built and what was being planned.
During the years leading up to WW1 and during WW1, the “dreadnought” battleship was considered the ultimate standard of national naval power. All major nations, even mostly land-locked Austria-Hungary, embarked on construction or procurement programs to build these steel monsters. The very first one, HMS Dreadnought, entered service in 1906. She sported 10 12” main guns, displaced about 19,000 tons, and had a speed of 21 knots based on a steam turbine power (as opposed to the less efficient expansion piston). The USA had actually planned two similar ships, USS South Carolina and USS Michigan, but budget constraints kept them from being the first ships finished.
Kaiser Wilhelm decided he wanted his own dreadnoughts and the race was on. The ships got bigger guns; first 12”, then 13.5”, then 14”, 15”, and finally 16”. The ships got bigger, up to 42,000 tons in HMS Hood. Oil replaced coal to make them faster. But these ships were very expensive and every nation was breaking the bank to build them.
Then came the naval conferences and treaties of the early 1920’s. It was decided that the ships would not exceed 35,000 tons and not carry guns larger than 14”. Tonnage ratios were established between nations to keep a naval balance of power. However, after 1925, no new battleships were built.
If you wish further reading on these naval arms races, Robert Massie’s “Dreadnought” and “Castles of Steel” are excellent books.
By the mid 1930’s, tensions mounted, existing battlefleets were getting old, and the old naval races were re-kindled. New battleships were planned, but in the United States and Britain, they were planned under the treaty restrictions. Thus, the British KGV class displaced 35,000 tons and had 10 14” guns. The first new American ships, USS North Dakota and USS Washington, were similarly designed. However, after design began, it was known that the Japanese were not honoring the treaty obligations, and rumors of the Yamato class were getting out. Thus, the designs of the North Carolina class were changed and the gun systems were changed to the 16” 45 cal guns previously used on the old West Virginia class.
The South Dakotas (South Dakota, Massachusetts, Indiana, Alabama) were also designed as 35,000 ton treaty ships, but differed from the North Carolina in that they were built with a much shorter length in order to increase armor thickness. The North Carolina and Alabama still exist today as museum ships (Wilmington NC & Mobile AL). I’ve toured both, and you can see the differences in how the ships were built, particularly how much more cramped the crew accommodations were on the South Dakotas.
It was those six ships of the North Carolina and South Dakota class that were still under construction when this article was published. North Carolina was the first commissioned, and she was actually doing sea trials in the North Atlantic during the fateful cruise of the Bismarck. There was some talk of using the North Carolina to intercept Bismarck should Bismarck approach US waters.
The follow-on generation of ships, of which the first two are mentioned here, are the Iowas. No treaty restrictions were considered in planning from keel up. Planned at 45,000 tons, they also had improved 16” 50 cal. guns. Bigger, better armored, faster and better armed, they were the height of battleship technology. Ever. I read a study comparing the fighting qualities of the Iowas vs. the Yamatos, and based on fire control, rate of fire, speed, and seaworthiness, the study concluded that the Iowas had a better than even chance even though on paper you’d think the Yamatos had the advantage due to bigger (18”) guns and more weight (68,000 tons).
Eventually, four Iowas were commissioned (Iowa, Missouri, Wisconsin & New Jersey). Three more began construction (Kentucky, Illinois, Ohio) but were scrapped before completion. The Iowa damaged her bow in the late 1940’s or early 1950s, and the bow of the incomplete Kentucky was used as a replacement.
The two ocean navy bill of 1940 authorized an even larger follow-on class; the Montanas, which would displace about 56,000-60,000 tons and have 12 16” guns. No construction ever began on those monsters; by that time it was apparent that carriers were more valuable.
Yes, battleships were expensive, VERY expensive. One needs only to tour them to see just how complex they were for their day. They were the cutting edge and highest form of a technology that no longer exists.
Carriers of the WW2 era, on the other hand, while expensive, were not as expensive as today. American CV’s were lightly armored, and had wooden as opposed to armored flight decks (unlike British or some Japanese carriers). Many carriers were built from modified hulls of other ships Lexington and Saratoga were started as battlecruisers, finished as carriers. The Independence class light carriers were quick expedients built on the hulls of Cleveland class light cruisers. At the time, all you needed was a hull, a propulsion plant, a hanger deck and a flight deck. Of course, there is more to that. The epitome of American carrier production was the Essex class. Several nice examples of Essex class carriers still exist as museums. Lexington is in Corpus Christi, Intrepid in New York, and Yorktown in Charleston. All were extensively modified during their long and productive careers, so you don’t get the same preserved WW2 feel that you get on the battleships. I’ve toured Lexington, and you can tell that the same level of investment was not required in her initial construction as in a contemporary battleship.
Some other proof regarding relative cost is found in the production statistics. From 1937-1944, the United States commissioned 10 new battleships, construction of six began before 1940. During the same time, we built 3 Yorktown class carriers (before WW2) and then during the war and shortly afterward built 24 (yes, not a typo, TWENTY FOUR) Essex class ships.
OK, that’s my rant for the day.
I must have toured the USS North Carolina just a couple years after she was put on display in 1965. I was around 14 years old myself as we spent a week at Long Beach, NC. We also visited many places my parent lived when my father was a young Marine stationed at Camp LeJune. The Marines really made him a hard ass as a father, thank goodness he wasn’t a lifer.
That's no rant. That's a seminar.
that was a good rant, thank you.
My hobby to a degree is military models, I have a nice tank collection and I’m building an early Tamiya Tiger right now, I have a very nice Gato class US sub fully built at 52” in a display case I did last winter and I have a huge Enterprise carrier kit to do eventually, myself I love tanks and subs, both are easy, I have this monster of a 18th century type of British battleship of its day, I guess it would take me a year to do that one. I would like to do battleships, big ones at least two feet long.
I am an attorney by trade, but if I could go back and change anything it would be to become a professor of history and specialize in WW2. I devour about 12-15 very thick history books each year (currently reading the US Army Official History, volume “Riviera to the Rhine”).
All of the first six WW2 battleships were decommissioned before 1950, and were set to be scrapped by 1962. Three were saved as museums. The Indiana was not one of them. The only pieces of her I am aware of are the aft mast and two quad 40mm guns on the west side of IU’s Memorial Stadium in Bloomington IN (Indiana was scrapped the same year the stadium was built. Also there is a plaque cut in the outline of the state of Indiana salvaged from her teakwood deck hanging in the offices of Hamilton Superior Court 1 in the Government and Judicial Center in Noblesville IN.
The best ships for the money were the British Queen Elizabeth class. They were the first oil-fired ships; they four of them fought at Jutland in 1916, all five served through WW2 as first line battleships.
My son & I have been building models the past couple of years. I have a small “east front” tank collection; and Elephant, a couple PzIV-70’s, a Hummel, T-34s and an SU 85. I really love trying to get the German camoflage right. Aaron has built tanks and ships, but seems to prefer aircraft.
They were already obsolete before their keels was ever laid down.
The construction of the Japanese battleship Yamato had begun in 1937 and it was the largest battleship ever built at 65,000 tons and with nine 18 inch guns.
In the end, on April 7, 1945, the Yamato was a sitting duck for aircraft of USS Hornet (CV-12) and USS Bennington (CV-20).
This article got me wondering about the relative cost of producing a BB vs. a CV. On the one hand, a carrier is just a floating hanger with a landing strip on the roof. But you have to include the aircraft in the cost since that is the main armament.
Iowa-class battleship cost: $125 million per ship
USS Hornet (CV-12) cost: $69 million
With, for example, over 7,800 Hellcats manufactured during the war, aircraft, like fuel, were an "expendable" commodity.
In the end, however, all that matters is "Bang for the Buck" and, during World War II, in regards to fleet battles, the battleship, with it's Lilliputian striking range when compared to a carrier, no longer had any Bang at all except as a shore bombardment platform under the protective cover of carriers or when, as in the The Battle of Surigao Strait, by pure luck, they found themselves up against other battleships without any carriers around.
Lets contemplate what enemies we will face in the next 50 years and design a ship best suited, my first suggestion is a new class of a submersible aircraft carrier with enclosed hanger launch tubes and the design of underwater launched aircraft, which is actually in discussion. Stealth in close to a nation and quick launched piloted or un manned aircraft plus all the equipment a submarine would use.
Would this be a viable platform? or because we are possibly facing a new superpower like China that may become aggressive that we should concentrate on smaller more potent ships, quantity vs quantity?
At 45,000 tons and with post 1939 construction, they would be Iowa class.
The North Carolina class (1937 Building Program) and subsequent South Dakota class (1939 Building Program) were both 35,000 ton limit "Washington Treaty" ships.
The keel of USS Iowa (BB-61) was laid in June 1940.
I'm a Software Engineer, and honestly I am thinking about doing just that. I'm only 38 so why cant I start a new career. Currently I'm reading "An Army at Dawn".
I'm a Software Engineer, and honestly I am thinking about doing just that.
Accountant, here, and dittos. Maybe we should start a support group - PWWTWVDH (Professionals who wish they were Victor Davis Hanson).
I like the sound of that. I like the name too. I figure it’s either that or HWP (Historians Without Portfolios).
Have you read Herman Wouk's "War and Remembrance?" There is a good account of the Leyte Gulf battle that gets away from the fictitious part of the story and gives a factual account. I heard once that Wouk started the book as an account of that battle and expanded it to cover the whole war. I don't know how much credit to give that.
The map is at the link that Polybius posted at number 29. It has a full resolution version if you click on the map too which is pretty big.
I haven’t read “War and Rememberance” I’ll have to put that on my list. If there’s one thing these threads have done is increased my “recommended reading” list.
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