Posted on 10/29/2008 7:59:42 PM PDT by Mad Dawg
I'm thinking of an AR. I'm thinking of a Bushie. I'm thinking lighter, smaller, suitable for when the compost hits the air-conditioner, able to reach out and touch someone at 100 meters, but not too fancy to use on a groundhog.
I'm thinking gas-piston for reliability. I'm also thinking I could be being stupid.
Any thoughtful advice and recommendations would be gratefully accepted. I just have a feeling things could get crazy enough that a vang-comp shottie and my sigs might not be enough.
just state publicly that you are not planning on targetting anybody running for President just to be sure that the DUmmies don’t try to spin this.
Me, I’m shopping for a FAL and another AR-15 lower at the show this weekend. :P
There’s also the SIG 556. It’s gas piston and uses standard AR magazines. I noticed one at Sportsman’s Warehouse but didn’t actually examine it. I think it was around $1400 which was quite a bit more than I was looking to spend. Ended up buying a Bushmaster M4gery somewhere else.
The Mini-14 is a lot of fun to shoot but it’s inaccuracy is built into the design. I tried off and on for years to try to correct the problems but failed because buying a decent barrel was out of the question.
Mini’s are good, reliable rifles as truck guns for varmints that don’t shoot back.
I was all set on gas piston operation until I talked to John Paul of JP Enterprises, the maker of highly accurized rifles, and an actual real world shooting competitor.
He says that the piston operation is jarring enough that long distance accuracy is compromised, so if you are thinking about precision work, you should probably just go with gas operation.
You’re only expecting to use it within 100m under fairly comfortable conditions; you’re thinking plinking & practice, with maybe home/neighborhood defense on extremely rare & limited circumstances. You’re NOT looking at frequent 600m shots in prolonged extremely dirty/wet conditions.
Piston is a toss-up. Really isn’t going to buy you anything unless you’re seriously expecting hard jungle/desert SpecOps use conditions. For all the badmouthing over the years, Stoner’s classic gas-impingement system works fine, just clean the thing once in a while.
Long barrel is unnecessary. If you’re planning for precision long-range shots (groundhogs at 600m), then yes get a long/heavy barrel. ...but you’re not, you expect larger targets under 100m. Being nothing special, I easily & reliably hit 100m targets with a 11.5” barrel.
A 16.1” barrel will do you just fine. Tighter twist rates, ideally 1:7”, are preferred so you’ll get better performance out of heavier rounds.
Scope is unnecessary for the same reasons. 100m with iron sights is easy for most people (your vision may differ). If SHTF, application will likely be a lot closer than the length of a football field. You’re trying to hit a 12” target, not a 1” one.
Non- or low-magnification optics may be desirable. IF you can find a reliable red-dot, target acquisition may be faster. Look at only those military-level versions that have an on-time exceeding one year. I’ve had a moderately cheap red-dot go blank while firing - a sinking feeling indeed. You’re looking at >$400 for a decent one. Put it on, turn it on, leave it on - if you worry about it turning off, take it off.
Iron sights are fine. Learn to use them.
The standard “M4gery” configuration will suit you just fine. I have a personal preference for the Colt M4LE line.
Get a suppressor if your jurisdiction allows and you can afford it. An AAC is worth the extra bucks. It will significantly (but not totally) reduce noise, and actually improve accuracy.
What you DO want is a solid reliable base platform. DPMS, Bushmaster, Armalite, Colt, maybe 1-2 others. Whatever model you get, and whatever doodads you attach, IT MUST GO BANG EVERY TIME. The piston/gas controversy is really largely irrelevant so long as you occasionally clean it. Don’t skimp on quality; when you really need it, you’ll be willing to pay the difference in price. Don’t screw around with replacing core components; while third-party manufacturers and zealots will assure you X is needed for superior performance, the basic rifle is built RIGHT by the manufacturer (that’s why you want a good manufacturer), and screwing around unbalances a system designed to work right.
Equal to the basic platform is ammo. Get good ammo designed to work in your configuration. The AR platform is tempermental, with lots of room for modifications that can work very well - or very badly. Poor ammo choices lead to poor performance - which (alongside cleaning) is the basis for most complaints. Shorter barrels prefer heavier rounds (my 11.5” requries >75gr ball) for optimal performance. With a 16.1” barrel you’ll want M855 ammo or some other 65gr round. Using ammo too light for the configuration will lead to inadequate terminal ballistics at applicable distances.
Ignore the posts about “get something else!” - you asked about AR15s, that’s a fine choice, focus on that. .308 is nice, but has a different application. 6.x may be superior, but is hard & expensive to deal with at this point. .223 / 5.56 will serve you well if you care for it well.
So...
Get a 16.1” gas-impingement iron-sights AR15 from a major respected manufacturer. Feed it 65gr M855 ball ammo. Attach a suppressor if you can. Clean it thoroughly and often. It will serve you well.
Isn’t that complaint akin to “the brakes are shot, so I made your horn louder”? How does a broken extractor demean gas impingement?
Book mark for later edification.
My plan would be to start’working the crowd” at 800 plus yards and switch over to a lighter caliber faster firing weapon at about 200 yards.
My plan would be to start’working the crowd” at 800 plus yards and switch over to a lighter caliber faster firing weapon at about 200 yards.
Also consider springs and roll pins, firing pin, hammer...that's the beauty of mil-spec...this stuff is everywhere and universally compatible. I've got a friend that has a dare-to-be-different attitude towards firearms. As a consequence, he pays dearly for ammo and nobody has any parts to help him out with.
That makes sense. I have a big property by east coast standards, but my house is about 100 feet from the street.
Get the direct impingement upper.
Use the money you save for ammo, magazines, etc.
If you decide sometime down the road that you really want a gas piston setup, all you should need to buy is the upper half.
Or, the default ar15.com answer - get both.
No.
How does a broken extractor demean gas impingement?
I believe gas fouled the reciever, increasing friction to the point that the extractor retaining pin cracked in half across its diameter.
Ping for your edification.
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