Saturn rings have own atmosphere

BBC ^ | Friday, July 1, 2005 | Paul Rincon

[SunkenCiv]

Saturn's vast and majestic ring system has its own atmosphere - separate from that of the planet itself, according to data from the Cassini spacecraft. And Saturn is rotating seven minutes more slowly than when probes measured its spin in the 70s and 80s - an observation experts cannot yet explain... By making close flybys of the ring system, Cassini has been able to determine that the atmosphere around the rings is composed principally of molecular oxygen (O2)... "The INMS sees the neutral oxygen gas, Caps sees the ionised products of that oxygen and the electrons associated with it. There is an enhancement over the rings," said Dr Andrew Coates, co-investigator for the Caps instrument, told the BBC News website... said the atmosphere was very similar to that of Jupiter's moons Europa and Ganymede. "As water comes off the rings, the hydrogen is lost from it, leaving the oxygen," he explained... Scientists admitted they were surprised by the finding that Saturn's rotation was slowing. "The rotation seems to have slowed down by about seven minutes compared with what was inferred from the Pioneer and Voyager data, but we don't actually understand why," said Professor Michele Dougherty, principal investigator for Cassini's magnetometer instrument.

[SunkenCiv]

They’ve watched one too many Seinfeld episodes.

[MacDorcha]

True- but I always found it to be more “Halo-esque” (As you stated, artificial)

No, I mean solely the planetary rings. Seems odd that such a concept is so... alien.

[SunkenCiv]

And fictional. :’) The mass needed to build it was (if memory serves) about that of Jupiter, but of course, not of the same material as Jupiter. The ring turned and the high wall on each side kept the atmosphere from spilling out. Maybe a force field was involved, I don’t remember. “Ringworld” and “Ringworld Engineers” were the last two book-length works of fiction I ever read, I think. The second of these was inspired in part by a group of geek physics grad students who chanted, “the Ringworld is unstable!”

[Covenantor]

Even odder that the ring atmosphere is O2. How alien is that? ;>)

[MacDorcha]

That would end up being f-d up beyond anything I cuold imagine-

No, there isn’t life on any PLANETS aside from Earth in the Solar System... but the RINGS...

Imagine finding bacteria cultures on a dwarf-moon? Chunks of asteroids...

(And no, I’m not smoking anything)

[Covenantor]

You jogged my memory enough that I had to google “Rinworld”. Has it really been 37 years since it was published? No wonder I don’t recall the detail so well.

Time to buy new copies.

[SunkenCiv]

By lopsided, I think you refer to Uranus’ rotational axis’ being nearly in the plane of the ecliptic. It has at least 27 moons, Titania is lower right:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1097532/posts?page=97#97

[SunkenCiv]

http://www.nineplanets.org/saturn.html
http://www.nineplanets.org/uranus.html

[SunkenCiv]

http://www.nineplanets.org/jupiter.html#khm

K. The heat is generated by the Kelvin-Helmholtz mechanism, the slow gravitational compression of the planet. (Jupiter does NOT produce energy by nuclear fusion as in the Sun; it is much too small and hence its interior is too cool to ignite nuclear reactions.) This interior heat probably causes convection deep within Jupiter’s liquid layers and is probably responsible for the complex motions we see in the cloud tops. Saturn and Neptune are similar to Jupiter in this respect, but oddly, Uranus is not.

[Covenantor]

The O2 is there according to the article.

By making close flybys of the ring system, Cassini has been able to determine that the atmosphere around the rings is composed principally of molecular oxygen (O2).

Welcome confirmation

The finding was made by two experiments on Cassini: the Ion and Neutral Mass Spectrometer (INMS) and Cassini Plasma Science (Caps) instrument.

“The INMS sees the neutral oxygen gas, Caps sees the ionised products of that oxygen and the electrons associated with it. There is an enhancement over the rings,” said Dr Andrew Coates, co-investigator for the Caps instrument, told the BBC News website.

Dr Coates, from the Mullard Space Science Laboratory (MSSL) at University College London, said the atmosphere was very similar to that of Jupiter’s moons Europa and Ganymede.

“As water comes off the rings, the hydrogen is lost from it, leaving the oxygen,” he explained.

Saturn’s rings consist largely of water-ice mixed with smaller amounts of rocky matter. Dr Coates said the ring atmosphere was probably kept in check by gravitational forces and a balance between loss of material from the ring system and a re-supply of material from elsewhere.

---

Here’s the kicker... the re-supply of material from elsewhere. Who’s delivering the ice for this party?

[SunkenCiv]

Small Comets and Our Origins
University of Iowa | circa 1999 | Louis A. Frank
Posted on 10/20/2004 2:13:25 AM EDT by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1250694/posts

[SunkenCiv]

Or maybe a trip to the library. I believe Niven (et al?) has made a bunch more sequels.

[Alter Kaker]

"The hydrogen is taken from the water by tiny elves with white beards," he explained.

Is there lightning in Saturn's rings? Anyone know? Electrolysis doesn't seem impossible to me, but then what do I know?

[SunkenCiv]

Various kinds of radiation available in space can accomplish it.

dissociation of water in space:

Google

[MacDorcha]

Heh, yes, I mean it’s rotational axis.

[metmom]

TMA I?

[Swordmaker]

The heat is generated by the Kelvin-Helmholtz mechanism, the slow gravitational compression of the planet.

Sure... modern cosmologists ignore a force that is 37 orders of magnitude more powerful than gravity and attribute Jupiter's heating to gravity instead... have we observed this supposed "compression" of the planet... which would seem to require the planet getting smaller... which would tend INCREASE its rotational velocity, not slow it down by 7 minutes in 28 years or so.

Just how much internal heat do you suppose is generated by the internal magneto/electrical fields that are evidenced by the Aurorae of Jupiter??

And how much electrical power does it take to strip those H₂O molecules of its Oxygen to form the O₂ in the atmosphere of the Rings and where might that come from... gravity???

[Swordmaker]

Is there lightning in Saturn's rings? Anyone know? Electrolysis doesn't seem impossible to me, but then what do I know?

There is a magnetic field... which implies moving electrons... Saturn's Aurorae:

[SunkenCiv]

...this supposed "compression" of the planet... which would seem to require the planet getting smaller... which would tend INCREASE its rotational velocity, not slow it down by 7 minutes in 28 years or so.

Yeah, that seemed a little strange to me as well, but hey, I read it on WikiPedia, so it must be true. ;')

[SunkenCiv]

????