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Posted on 03/09/2007 8:53:08 PM PST by mom4kittys
Edited on 03/09/2007 9:36:53 PM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]
Thread Number Two
Just to refresh us on what Perper said about the atropine - from CNN interview -
“Let me just mention that one of the points which was raised in prior discussion was how long it took before she was taken to the hospital. And there was some question that there was no delay. And I must say that at this time we can confirm that there was not a delay, because our toxicology revealed in her blood and medication, which is called atropine, and atropine is a medication which is very often even in resuscitation procedures. If she would have been dead for a long time, there would have been no way for us to find the atropine in the blood. It meant that the resuscitation had some kind of minimal effect in being able to move the blood through the body.”
So here he is saying that the “resuscitation had some kind of minimal effect in being able to move the blood through the body.” - and that’s whay the atropine was found.
Now we need to know how long a person can be “dead” before cpr will no longer pump the blood. I realize that if a person has been dead a long time - long enough for rigor to set in - that then the blood probably couldn’t be pumped - but what about if they’ve been dead 1 hour or 2 etc... I’ll try too find out.
To: TexKat
I recall on Nancy Grace or maybe another show, ANS’s mother said that her daughter phoned her but sounded drugged after the death of Daniel and then Stern cut the call short and changed the phone number. Since ANS’s mother raised Daniel for many years, they must not have hated each other too much, at least not any longer.
4,807 posted on 02/12/2007 7:14:06 PM CST by Dante3
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To: Dante3
I recall on Nancy Grace or maybe another show, ANS’s mother said that her daughter phoned her but sounded drugged after the death of Daniel and then Stern cut the call short and changed the phone number. Since ANS’s mother raised Daniel for many years, they must not have hated each other too much, at least not any longer.
I agree Dante3 and I also heard that on a show other than Nancy Grace.
4,809 posted on 02/12/2007 7:20:17 PM CST by TexKat (Just because you did not see it or read it, that does not mean it did or did not happen.)
“Makes you wonder if they really did it at all...Between the rubbing of the feet and the mirror bit.
And in all this no one says they said: “Anna...Anna...Wake up”....Or, “I shook her arm...”
It was like: Hey Taz...Come here...Look at this???????????”
Indeed. Those would have been the expected responses. Goes right along with the ridiculous amount of time she SUPPOSEDLY kept up the CPR efforts. In fact I don’t think trained paramedics could have kept it up as long as they reported they did. So much in her testimony sounds like stuff Taz and Moe added “after the fact,” to cover up the impossibility of attempting CPR on a body that was clearly from their observed palor, beginning lividity and beginning, reported tongue rigidity not going to respond. I believe they did hold a mirror and saw nothing.
” but it seems to me there is the possibility that Anna died not from what she was taking, but from what she was suddenly NOT taking. “
You would think . But, not to Dr Perper.
PERPER: .. But this methadone in her bile didn`t have any impact on her death or on her consciousness. It was just there. ( Nancy Grace, March 27 )
It was sitting there, innocent, all by it’s lonesome, not bothering anybody , no interest in how it got there or when it got there or why it’s suddenly not in the bloodstream.
Slightly off topic, but, from the same interview NG asks Perper if he doesn’t find the two deaths suspicious.
Perper then makes himself the ME, the PD,the prosecutor, Stern’s defense attorney, the Judge and the jury. What an arrogant piece of work.
DR. JOSHUA PERPER, BROWARD COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER: Well, I think that the question is the following.
If you suspect that it was foul play, and you have a suspect, and if you theoretically assume that they will go to court, do you think that any court of law would find a conviction or a presence of homicide based on the evidence available?
Not in a thousand years.
just wondering how long it takes a person to get purple marks on them? IMO it’s pretty obvious that she was dead before anyone found her. The question is, did HKS know when he left the room?
Brigitte Neven interview with Rita Cosby and Rita with Wecht (Feb. 14):
Rita says after about 1-1/2 hours of napping, Brigitte thought it was a long nap.
" Neven: When I looked at her I knew something was wrong instantly because there was no…..when people sleep the chest rises and falls and she was just lying there. And I thought, ‘that can’t be…there is something not right’. And I tried to……her jaw had dropped ….I tried to push it shut and….it, it wouldn’t. And I said, “You got to come here, something’s wrong” and she said, “what do you mean?” And I said please, and then everything, you know, just happened so quick. She tried to do CPR, she put the pillow away and started CPR and I rubbed her feet, and she tried to put some water in it but she couldn’t find a pulse and then she called Mo and he called 911.
Rita: This was the bodyguard’s wife?
Neven: Yeah, she called her husband to call 911 because we were so busy, we didn’t want to leave her there like that. We wanted to try….we still believed we could, you know, somehow, you know, talk. We, we yelled at her, we got water, we got a mirror to see if there was any breath…it was…..it was terrible.
Rita: There was no breath obviously?
Neven: No. No, like there was…..she was not cold. She was, she was warm. But she also had a big comforter over her, like her feet were warm, but it was like she was comatose, for sure.
Rita: What was she wearing? Neven: (mouths) Nothing. Rita: Nothing - she was naked I understand. Neven: She was yeah. She didn’t wear any nightgown or anything like that.
Rita then goes live to Wecht (who saw interview with Brigitte):
Wecht: Well, obviously you’re talking about a death that had occurred within a matter of some/several minutes. One would have to know the temperature in the room, was there air conditioning and so on, was she covered with a blanket. So those things are not mathematically calculable in a precise fashion. However, you’re talking about a death that had just occurred. She’s not a forensic pathologist so she did not note things like livor mortis, gravitational settling of blood, rigor mortis, stiffening of the body, but certainly we’re talking about a death that occurred relatively recently. Se also mentioned that she was lying in her bed with a nightgown, so one would have to know what was her custom at this time in FL, what time did she go to bed, when precisely had she last been seen, what was her sleeping habit, and so on. So you’re dealing with a tragic death.
Wecht: And as we’ve talked before Rita, the problem is, when someone is suffering from the central nervous system depressentrux (sp?), if that proves to be the case and I think it will, you cannot tell this in any way, etc. There’s no discomfort, there’s no pain, there’s no physical suffering, there’s no difficulty in breathing, everything becomes slower and slower. It’s a slow downhill course, and even if you were sitting there watching somebody, you would have no way of knowing that they were moving into a semi-comatose, stuporous state. It’s a tragedy.
Rita: In fact Dr. Wecht, that’s what I was going to ask you, and what everyone has told us, and Brigitte confirmed to us that she was found naked, sleeping with a sheet and sort of partially covering her face, the sheet was. But what she did also say is that, she knew she was sick. And she said she was told, as soon as she arrived there, HKS led her up to the hotel room and said look, if you guys can be quite because Anna Nicole is sleeping. Let’s let her rest, was sort of the sense that everybody sort of agreed to, because she was woozy, fever, that’s sort of the onset of all this. And possibly could that be an indication of prescribed drugs.
Wecht: Well the wooziness, confusion, certainly could. On the other hand, and we’ve all been there before, with fevers, and respiratory ailments, and that too, can make you behave in a similar fashion. You can have a combination here too. The ME has reviewed the microscopic slides by now…(snip)
Remember, she weighed 178 lbs.. That kind of weight carries a pretty good vibration. The chances of it being a "disturbing sound" is very great.
I think she was pretty much out of it by 10 also but I'd say the "Bathroom time" was "killer dose" time.
Same thing with Danny. "Bathroom time" was "Killer dose" time.
The time spreads are the same. Funny, they said that Danny had been dead for a while when Anna found him "not breathing".
Funny, Howard got to the dock just in time to get the phone call on front of a witness.
Lets go back: Moe left to go help his brother. A little while later, Moe calls and asks about Anna. Why??
A few minutes later, Taz calls Moe and says HELP! Moe calls Howard.
I'm speculating....It wasn't MOE that called Taz...It was Howard checking on Anna as he got to the dock (because right after is when they checked on her) and told her to call Moe because he'd be on the boat.
In other words, he wanted someone to find her "NOW" while he was away.
And that's why Howard sent Moe to the hospital with Anna and said "don't say anything until I talk to you" and grabbed Taz to "refresh her memory" and told Brigitte and Eric and unnamed friend to get out of town.
Howard later went to the hospital to spend alone time with Anna and talked to Moe at that time.
They had trouble keeping the stories straight because they were only half truths and didn' string together easily.
I was thinking the same thing...do these people not have lives and jobs of their own??
Again, is there a reason if, when Larry gets custody, the Shelleys cannot have HKS et al arrested for trespassing as they have no legal right to be there. I don’t even see why it is a matter of eviction and not trespassing.
My sister went into cardiac arrest.Her husband had only left her side for 2 minutes-she was talking and he came out of the bathroom and she was slumped over.It took 20 minutes for the EMT to arrive and they worked on her for 20 minutes and got a heartbeat but she was brain dead.
Except would Perper have known everything she had been taking, or only what he found in her system?
Do we have a FReep Doctor who knows whether or not ABRUPTLY discontuing use of all the following all at once can kill ya?
Drugs Prescribed, but NOT Found in Autopsy:
Dilaudid
SOMA
Dalmona
Prexige
Robaxin
Lasix
Topomax
So, do we know which three drugs were not prescribed to HKS? I am guessing we are talking about the tamiflu, cipro, and then, the drug used by the EMT bunch?
So, all of the drugs whose interraction caused her death were HKS’s? And he doesn’t understand why his name and murder are used so frequently together? Does he really think he has a leg upon which to stand in his looming law suits against the media??
I could be mistaken (I quite often am), but I think Wild Irish Rogue is an MD.
That’s just one of several questionable issues in his report, IMO.
Anna Nicole Smith Baby DNA Results: Bahamas Shuffle Over?
By Julie Pike
Apr 7, 2007
While blockbuster information about hundreds of pills hit this week about the Anna Nicole Smith case in Florida many are still wondering what is taking so long for the Bahamas to rule and reveal who is the father of the baby of Anna Nicole Smith? Not the father on the birth certificate that is already known to be her lawyer Howard K. Stern. Observers are anticipating the announcement from the Bahamas that gives proof. In what has turned into a Bahamas shuffle of sorts, the case has dragged into another week. But now will we gat the results?
Anna Nicole Smith Baby DNA Results: Bahamas Shuffle Over?
The newsroom at TMZ.Com says it is all systems go. A weekend report from the website claims that the people who need to be there have booked their tickets. Dr. Michael Baird, the DNA expert from Ohio, has cleared his schedule and will be front and center in a Bahamian court to authenticate his DNA findings. Larry Birkhead will be there, hoping to hear the critical word — “match.”
***
The report notes: If his DNA matches Dannielynn’s, it will almost certainly change everything. The item details that Howard K. Stern has filed no objections since his appeal was rejected last week. The only rub could come in the rather large form of Virgie Arthur, the now universally disliked but omnipresent grandmother of Dannielynn.
The report concludes - “In the Anna Nicole baby saga, and it will definitely happen Tuesday.”
http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/publish/article_272612592.shtml
OH...I didn’t know that...well...any thoughts? I’m looking at the flip side of this...is it possible that when KE abruptly stopped giving Anna all of these:
Dilaudid
SOMA
Dalmona
Prexige
Robaxin
Lasix
Topomax
Methadone
and added CH, it killed her?
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