Posted on 08/20/2006 5:37:25 AM PDT by Rte66
For your bookmarking assistance, this is a reference list of links to the Aug 2006 or newer Free Republic threads on the topic of the JonBenet Ramsey murder case and the possible arrest of John Mark Karr as a suspect in her murder.
No
YW
I think the child beauty pagents are sick. Patsy was from WVA and maybe those pagents are thought of differently than we view them.
Hahahaha. You noticed. I meant Thank you.
It is possible that the head wound occurred while the child was being strangled if she was struggling violently and/or if the killer was in some way tossing her around violently while tightening the garott. Both the strangulation and the head trauma were fatal in and of themselves. She clearly survived the head trauma for at least a short while after it occurred. Similarly, with the strangulation, there are clear signs she was alive when it occurred.
If I understand the autopsy conclusions correctly, the head wound had to occur either shortly before she was strangled or during the strangulation, but before her heart stopped pumping. I don't think it's possible, lacking other evidence, to conclude precisely in what sequence the head and neck traumas occurred, which is probably why the coroner was vague on this point.
Medical professionals who study the autopsy photos and descriptions could give us an estimate of how long she might have survived such severe head trauma without medical support. My guess is a very few minutes, at best. My guess is not long enough to carry her all the way down to the basement if she was struck on the head in her bedroom or the kitchen. If I'm right, this means the two fatal events did not occurr in different locations.
The autopsy says the whole inner surface of her scalp, her skull and the right side of her brain were coated in blood. So her heart did keep pumping for at least a brief period after the head wound occurred.
Because there is also evidence of the child being alive when she was strangled, the only logical conclusion I can draw is that the head trauma occurred either a very short time before she was strangled, or during the strangulation.
I want to picture the scene as someone hitting her from behind and then doing the rest, because I want to see it as the child mercifully never knowing who and what hit her.
BTW, even though no evidence so far tells me Karr really is the killer, I can see how some twisted SOB like him might think JonBenet's death was an accident. The head wound may very well have been an accident. The garrotting was obviously not an accident, and after reading the autopsy report and seeing the photos, I'm no longer convinced it was done to cover up what someone thought was the child's death due to the blow to her head.
They matched the cord to some sold at McGuckin's Hardware in Boulder, CO.
It's a special type of utility cord that is flat instead of rounded like most cord. That assures that it doesn't slip.
The fibers found entangled in the cord knot, along with JonBenet's hair, were red ones consistent with the sweater Patsy had had on that night and the next morning - the same red fibers found on the sticky side of the duct tape on JonBenet's mouth.
Fibers can only be called "consistent" microscopically in a legal setting, not "matched," because of the commonality. However, when you see the microscopic close-ups, the "match" becomes obvious when an expert witness is on the stand. They also compare fabric type, dye batch, thread count, length, and so on.
but no other length of the same cord, or the duct tape roll, was found in the house, right?
so that means the killer brought those items into the house with them, or they were disposed of from inside the house.
and I don't know how they would explain the fibers in the case against Karr.
Come on, those pageants are not sick. The problem is that the media keeps showing JBR video clips and pictures from her pageants. Of course some moms take it a bit to seriosly, but I come from a background of this type of stuff and it was a blast. I was a child actress and did auditions and stuff like this all the time with my mom. It was the best time of my life. My sister did more pageants since she could dance better than me and enjoyed it way more, but to call it sick? Please! If I had daughter's and they wanted to do pageants I'd so do it with them.
Too each our own. I am sorry, Halls, but I think the pagents are sick. I am not so closed minded that I cannot see the attraction the pagents hold for youngs girls and their moms. Playing dress-up and singing and dancing is not unlike putting on a child's theater production.
Patsy and her sister Pam had a mini-"dynasty" going in the Miss West Virginia contest. Both had won the title, so it was quite a big deal in their family.
Pam even talked about it on TV yesterday, how fabulous it was to go to the Miss America pageant and take part in all the activities in Atlantic City.
When you know it's possible, maybe even probable, to work up to that, I guess that makes it imperative to participate, in a way.
I'm totally indifferent to that part of the story - except I didn't like JonBenet's "glamour shots" that made her look like in her 20s. She was very pretty, but that was over-the-top. I'm sure Patsy was glad afterwards that she had them, though.
Personally I think judging anyone for how they want to parent or do things IMO is wrong. If Patsey liked the pageant world and wanted her daughter to enjoy it like she did than that was her deal. I can't stand it when people pass judgment one other's people's way of life just because it is different than theirs.
No, none of the remainders of cord or tape were found. There may not have been any. Debris on the back of the tape indicated it may have been a used piece.
The cord was also wrapped on the outside of her shirt cuffs, knotted loosely around her wrists - that may have been to use it all up.
Well, it's important to this case because a little girl was murdered and she may have come to the attention of a pedo when performing in public - but that could've happened in any other kind of public setting, too.
I still feel like pedos want little children who look like innocent little children, not dressed up like adults with whom pedos can't relate.
Tall_Texan, your posts on this subject have been some of the most thoughful and cogent that I've seen. You're neither on the "Ramseys are exonerated" nor "Ramseys are scum" bandwagons, which is refreshing. But you are exposing large holes and interesting conundrums from the facts we have so far.
I thought he might be in some kind of database due to his record and/or teaching (if he is certified). I know that many of us in various occupations, including law enforcement, judicial, education, etc...have to be fingerprinted. DNA is a little different, but do you know if they had any prints from the murder scene?
I also agree about the "they must have something" fallacy. cf. the Duke Lacrosse case if you think prosecutors always have "something" just because they have issued an arrest warrant!!!
I am an attorney and former prosecutor, so I know of which I speak!!!!
If JBR was mudered because of her being made to look like a beauty queen in pageants and we know that for sure is the cause I'm sure her father will regret ever allowing JBR being in the pageants. But we don't know if this was the cause and just because the Ramsey's put their daughter in pageants does not mean they were bad parents. Heck, my sister takes her daughter to a very well know little girl even once a year where she lives and all the little girls get to be dressed up all pretty. My sister and her daughter love to go. So lets say a pedophile gets a glimpse at my niece looking all pretty and decides he has to have her and kills her. Is this my sister's fault? No it is the sick freak who did it. Same senario applies with the Ramsey's. They did nothing wrong here, the murderer did.
WHO has said they were bad parents?
WHO has said that?
If judging parents is wrong how can't putting young children into a world of judging not be?
wendy murphy going nuts on CTV now, talking about how Lin Wood threatened to sue her for accusing John Ramsey.
Thanks, but I have I missed it? On commercials right now.
Nate said that's not the John I know. It looks like he's drugged. Did they drug him? (Something like that).
At one point, he put his arm around his father (like a buddy) but it really looked like he grabbed him away from what he was babbling about.
IMHO Nate and the father only had very loose ties with John, and as far as Christmas, Nate is guessing. I have a feeling that Christmas wasn't a family "big deal", if John was away for a few days, it was not unusual.
Nate is using the "as long as he had kids" as a crutch. If John wasn't in the pictures, why hasn't someone in the family said: "John never liked his picture taken".
The picture of John and his 3 sons in California. It does appear that he didn't want to be in that picture. Look at other years at Christmas. 1995-2001.
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