Cleopatra Found Depicted In Drag

Discovery News ^ | 9-21-2005 | Jennifer Viegas

[blam]

Cleopatra Found Depicted in Drag

By Jennifer Viegas, Discovery News

Sept. 21, 2005— A relief image carved approximately 2,050 years ago on an ancient Egyptian stone slab shows Cleopatra dressed as a man, according to a recent analysis of the artifact.

The object is only one of three known to exist that represent Cleopatra as a male. The other two artifacts also are stelae that date to around the same time, 51 B.C., at the beginning of Cleopatra's reign.

Researchers theorize that the recently discovered 13.4 x 9.8-inch stela probably first was excavated in Tell Moqdam, an Egyptian city that the ancient Greeks called Leonton Polis, meaning "City of the Lions."

"It shows Cleopatra dressed as a male pharaoh with the (characteristically male) double crown offering the hieroglyph of a field to a lion crouching on a pedestal," said Willy Clarysse, who conducted the analysis. "Above the lion, a hieroglyphic text calls him 'Osiris the Lion,' that is, the deceased and mummified lion who is identified with the god of the underworld, Osiris."

Osiris was an important god in Egyptian culture. Royals made offerings to him in hopes of receiving life, stability and dominion over their lands.

Clarysse, an Egyptologist and classics scholar at the Catholic University in Leuven, Belgium, told Discovery News that Cleopatra's apparent sex change was probably due to the artist's laziness.

"Up to 51 B.C., Ptolemaios XII, the father of Cleopatra, was king over Egypt," he said. "When he died, some of the stelae were already carved. The stone cutter then added the name of the new sovereign in the cartouche, but he did not change the picture of the male pharaoh into a female because this was too difficult or too much work."

Clarysse added that one of Cleopatra's legs had been recarved, so perhaps someone started to redo the initial image "but then gave up."

The findings will be published next year in the German publication Antique World.

Queen Hatshepsut, who lived during the 16th and 15th centuries B.C., often was represented without breasts, in male clothing and with a full beard. Many historians believe she assumed these symbols of masculinity to assert her power and claim to the throne at a time when most women did not wield much official authority.

[blam]

GGG Ping.

Click here to see more pictures of Cleo in drag.

[xJones]

The object is only one of three known to exist that represent Cleopatra as a male.

Did anybody tell Julius Caesar or Mark Anthony?

[sassbox]

Julius Caesar, aka the husband of every woman and the wife of every man, probably would've found it kinky!

Queen Hatshepsut, who lived during the 16th and 15th centuries B.C., often was represented without breasts, in male clothing and with a full beard.

For some reason, this sentence made me think of Hillary Clinton

[msnimje]

Did anybody tell Julius Caesar or Mark Anthony?

And poor Richard Burton.

[after dark]

This is strange.

Depicting Cleopatra as male was probably a sign of respect.

We are told by historians Cleopatra was an ugly woman. We are told by historians that Cleopatra was hyped by people who never knew her.

This was not long after her death. Maybe she really was a force to be reckoned with.

[so_real]

Experts think the depictions of Cleopatra as a man were most likely due to laziness. Her father had been ruler before her, and so the carvers probably just changed the name, but not the sex of the figure.

Interesting ...

[Solamente]

Is that an obelisk in your caftan, or are you just happy to see me?

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks Blam. Time for the song...

"Queen Slut.... Queen Slut... Oh, when she was a small girl, she never thought she'd see... Queen Slut... people stand in line, to see the Boy Queen..."

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.

Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
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[SunkenCiv]

Pravda version:
http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/90/363/16113_cleopatra.html

And here's a photo of an earlier female Pharaoh, Hatshepsut, showing the false beard:

http://oleg-petrov.net/hatshbeard.jpg

Additional images of Hatshepsut (et al) some with beards:

http://www.freemaninstitute.com/Gallery/RTGpix6.htm

[Psycho_Bunny]

In the ancient world this could easily symbolize a woman who "has the power of a man".

[SunkenCiv]

Okay, sorry, perhaps that was a bit on the inappropriate side of the Nile. It was meant to be flippant. King Herod (and he was a bloodthirsty killer) was among those offended by her compulsive sexuality. She bid him dismiss all their servants, then wanted to get it on. And that's just the, uh, tip of the iceberg.

Some photos of ancient artifacts showing Cleopatra the VIIth (I think Alexander the Great's dad married the first Cleopatra, after he dumped Al's mother, but won't swear to it without a web search).

http://www.ancientegyptmagazine.com/images/cleopatra%20statue%2006.jpg
http://www.vroma.org/images/mcmanus_images/cleo_caesarion_coin.jpg
http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~ekondrat/Augustus/Cleopatra_Antony.jpeg http://www.livius.org/ps-pz/ptolemies/cleo_bust_s.JPG
http://www.livius.org/a/1/romanempire/cleo_bust.JPG
http://www.bible-history.com/images/cleoptra/cleo2.jpg
http://www.historyforkids.org/learn/romans/history/pictures/cleopatra.jpg
http://www.pupress.princeton.edu/images/k7016.gif

[Translates]

Pretty interesting. Wonder where this stele was discovered.

[SunkenCiv]

use caution when searching for Google images of Cleo, they are not necessarily for children (and most are of modern stuff, in some cases, a little too modern):

http://web.it.kth.se/~dick56/Travel/London/Cleopatra.jpg
http://www.fieldmuseum.org/cleopatra/photos/ptolemaic_th.gif
http://www.vroma.org/images/mcmanus_images/cleo_egyptcoin2.jpg
http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~rauhn/cleopatra.jpg
http://wesclark.com/jw/cleopatra.jpg
http://gloriaderoma.com/CLEOPATRA.JPG
http://www.dl.ket.org/latin1/gallery/people/images/cleopatra_.jpg
http://www.sangha.net/messengers/Cleopatra3.gif

source of the preceding image:
http://sangha.net/messengers/cleopatra/all.htm

(not sure about which Cleopatra is in this next image)
http://www.fief.org/kathleen/Athens/large/Cleopatra.jpg

Browsing Roman Imperatorial Coins of Cleopatra
http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/imp/cleopatra/i.html

and, a related story, also originally from Discover, but now probably existing only on my hard drive...

Cleopatra's Signature Discovered
By Rossella Lorenzi, Discovery.com News
October 3, 2000
http://www.discovery.com/news/briefs/20000928/hi_cleopatra.html

Sept. 28, 2000 — The handwriting of the Egyptian queen Cleopatra has emerged from a Greek papyrus stored for more than a century in a mummy casing in the Egyptian Museum in Berlin, Germany, a Dutch scholar claimed yesterday.

"Cleopatra's signature can be found in just one word: 'genestho,' which means 'Make it so!' It is the formula for the royal authorization, and had to be added by the ruler's own hand," said Peter Van Minnen, a Dutch Academy research fellow in religious studies at the University of Groningen.

There are plenty of royal ordinances from Egypt during the rule of the Ptolemaic dynasty (323 - 30 B.C.) that include royal subscriptions, but they are copies embedded in official correspondence or engraved inscriptions.

Van Minnen insists the document he discovered is an original. The main text was the work of a secretary, while the subscription "genestho," written in a different hand, was signed by the queen herself.

[Larry Lucido]

My experts say it was actually King Rutentuten, not Cleopatra.

[Larry Lucido]

Course, it could have been Queen Hotsitotsie in drag.

[Lockbar]

[SunkenCiv]

http://www.fathom.com/course/21701722/cleopatra.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9b/CleopatraVIIEgypt.jpg
http://www.rowfant.demon.co.uk/cleopatra.jpg
http://www.juntadeandalucia.es/cultura/bibliotecavirtualandalucia/img/historia/cleopatra.jpg
http://www.lsg.musin.de/Geschichte/lex-gr/Glossar-G/cleopatra2.jpg
http://www.lsg.musin.de/Geschichte/lex-gr/Glossar-G/cleopatra-m%FCnze.jpg
http://www.malaspina.org/gif/cleopatra.jpg
http://www.minkema.nl/vakken_m/geschiedenis/images/cleopatra-vii.jpg
http://www.romancoins.info/cleopatra-manton-2003.jpg
http://www.romancoins.info/e2005%20(40).jpg
http://www.romancoins.info/cleopatra-m-antonius.jpg
http://www.martinlutherking.org/images/cleopatra.jpg
http://montgomery.cas.muohio.edu/delucej/images/cleopatra.jpg
http://www.hunterian.gla.ac.uk/collections/museum/coins/images/cleopatra.jpg
http://www.egiptoaldescubierto.com/personajes/cleopatra7/cleopatra.jpg
http://intranet.grundel.nl/thinkquest/cleopatra.jpg

Not a bad page:
http://www.tesorillo.com/preimperio/cleopatra/cleopatra.htm

just for laughs, with Baghdad Bob:
http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/images/cleopatra.jpg

And from the imagination, Victorian paintings, by Alma-Tadema:
http://www.artsales.com/ARTistory/Ancient_Ships/images/Cleopatra_on_the_Way_to_Actium.jpg

...and by Waterhouse:
http://www.wyldeart.com/Galleries/Victorian-Classicism/Waterhouse/images/Cleopatra_1Up.jpg

and a painting by Gerome:
http://www.asaeditora.org/images/cleopatra_before_ceasar_gerome.jpg

[Republicanprofessor]

I don't know about Hillary Clinton....but I always thought that they portrayed Hatshepsut as a male because those were the conventions of the time. Not all of them had the beard. The seated image here is actually the better in terms of quality, subtlety, etc. But I especially like the kilt that popping out in the standing image. Talk about conventions instead of realism.

[thefactor]

"She's a MAN, baby!"