Posted on 12/20/2004 6:41:03 AM PST by kerouacbal
I am 26 years old and have been married for 2 years. I am having trouble growing up and I am driving my wife nuts. It has gotten to the point that my wife talks about divorce almost every day. I want to work this out more then I every wanted anything but I can't seem to do it or do it quick enough. I can't seem to remember consistently to do every day things like take out the garbage make sure all the doors are locked and the heat is off at night (there is a lot more but won't get into it all). I am posting this here to try to get some advise on how to help my self grow up and start to take care of my wife and son better like a husband should. My parents are dead and I don't have a close family member or friend to get advise from. Could someone please help me.
I feel very much like I'm one of the only people here staring the camel directly in the eye. A man wants help growing up and describes how he is lacking in maturity in some detail, and I post some advice, which, if taken, will result in a modicum of self-discipline.
Others here have disregarded this man's cry for instruction and replaced it with all kinds of notions about his wife's unreasonableness. They have taken the camel and replaced it with a skunk. And make no mistake, these people reek of misogyny. For they are jumping all over the wife in spite of the husband's admissions of failure.
I do feel sorry for them, because their posts betray great bitterness, but at the same time, they aren't addressing the poster's admissions of failure and cries for help in a sincere way, and their cynicism cannot be constructive...for they are urging the man to blame the state of his marriage on his wife. Even if they are correct, this is no solution to the problem, because he cannot change her. If the cynics are right, and if the man wants to save his marriage, the only shred of hope he has left is to change himself into a responsible, mature adult. He can't change his wife. His only hope in light of this possible scenario is that she will want to change herself once she sees his transformation.
And if the cynics are wrong, he knows that he needs to change anyway. So why not help the guy learn some discipline and grow up, for Pete's sake? Why encourage him to blame his wife? Why not encourage him to lead her out of their morass by example? It happens all the time! It can be done!
Gorwing up is easy, just put away all your childish things.
Did I say gorwing? You know what I meant.
I think they are well on their way to "doggie style."
He sits up and begs; she rolls over and plays dead.
I can't seem to find time to do dishes or laundry.
As far as your question about "turning the other cheek" is concerned, I take the admonition literally: and I have yet to be slapped by a Moslem (or anyone else) for my faith. Al Qaeda has attacked my country and they're getting their comeuppance.
Now why don't you tell me which part of the poster's appeal to the Biblical principles on marriage you disagree with, so I can know where you stand and how to reply?
....For they are jumping all over the wife in spite of the husband's admissions of failure.....
A husband's failure would include whoring around; inability to provide for the family; staying out with the boy's getting drunk; total sloviness; inability to care about his wife and child; total stupidity in his personal relations with others.
Not taking out the garbage is not one of those marriage threatening events, and certainly not of a stature to have his wife constantly tell him that she'd going to divorce him because of garbage.
That's not this guy's problem. His problem is that he's been so "pu##y whipped that anything he doesn't do (and probably alot of what he does do) is seen as totally inadequate by his domineering spouse. Yeah, spouse, 'cause most of the time it's the other way around where the man is in the domineering driverseat.
This guy's gotta look himself in the mirror, and be able to say, "I am a good person" To now, the bitch has taken that pride away from him. (This could work in the total opposite gender.)
He'll never find his marriage until he finds himself, and that doesn't mean that he's gotta put on his kneepads and kneel at her begging forgiveness and saying I'm sorry over and over. Screw that, let's get this marriage back on an even playing field.
Let's allow them to get to enjoy their good memories to re-build what they once had. For some that may mean bringing religion into their lives, for many of us, religion makes no difference in their interpersonal relationship with their spouse.
Good luck to this guy. I hope that the diverse opinions expressed, some in jest, some very serious, on this thread help to allow this guy to get his chin off the sink, and look himself squarely in the mirror, and say -"What is it that I truly want in my life?" I'm sure it will include his son, maybe his wife, but he will never make a life for himself until he can honestly face himself in his own reality, not in his wife's wantabee.
Hmmm. Should I address you as "they," or are you the aphorism fairy?
The reason his paradigm is being discounted, much like your own, is it fails to recognize the reactions are not commensurate to the offences. In fact, you seem to be studiously avoiding that point. This indicates to me the dynamic is not what he thinks it is.
One can take it at face value faithful moslems get to spend the rest of eternity whoring around with their own personal harem, or one can ask the more trenchant question "why is such behaviour permitted there, but prohibited here?".
Even if they are correct, this is no solution to the problem, because he cannot change her.
Wrong. I'm still married today because I was able to convince my wife she was judging me by my actions, and herself by her intentions. If this man does *nothing* you have a point. But my experience is that's seldom the case. More often, she has a script in her head, and he's suppose to follow it. The things he does usually aren't even on her script, so he gets no credit for them.
"The real reson they want it left down is this: If you leave it up, they might, absentmindedly, fall in when they try to sit down...possibly even injuring themselves...in fact, I would guess that 100% of the women who complain about the seat being left up have fallen into the toilet at some point in their lives."
So, from what your saying, my woman shouldn't have a problem if I pee on the half-mast toilet lid when I'm stumbling around half asleep, cause I saved her butt from a worse fate already. Yeah, that's gonna fly.
And what's with those damn scented fuzzy toilet covers? They won't let the seat stand up on it's own, so there's no way to hold your beer, and your wanker, and the toilet seat at the same time!
Not locking the door at night is inexcusable and very dangerous. Forgetting to do certain things on occasion is understandable, forgetting ALL the time to do things not so much, forgetting occasionally to do things which must be done ALL the time is unacceptable. Bottom line is one's ingestion of various delecti cannot exceed the level which endangers ones family.
Mike, when I was a kid, I was learning to play tennis. A retired fellow who played at the park everyday with the group was nice enough to help teach me to play.
Well, we played doubles once as a team against two ladies.
This fellow warmed up, then went to the side to take his sweat bottoms off.
He forgot to wear anything underneath and flashed accidentally.
It happens, but he was popular with the ladies after that, so good things can happen from forgetfulness.
And that is all I'm advocating here. If this man shows his wife an impeccable example, she may be persuaded to change herself (if she is indeed a mere harpy running down his ego for her own ends). I doubt that this man will be able to persuade her verbally, as he is convinced that his shortcomings betray a lack of maturity that is so chronic that it prevents him from fulfilling even the most minor and simple everyday tasks; he will not be able to deal with her forthrightly, as an adult, because he doesn't think he has a leg to stand on.
In order to gain that leg, my advice to him is to do things that will instill self-discipline in order to mature. At that point he might have enough self-image to give him the confidence to deal with her as an adult male. Because, at present, he's acting like a child. This post is solid evidence of it.
A man who acts like a child cannot save his marriage, and saving his marriage is the man's stated aim. He must grow up. It will take discipline to do it. He can gain discipline if he follows the advice I've given him. (He can gain it in other ways as well, and some of those ways have been posted by others on this thread.)
I assume you work a job. What does your wife do? Is your list of jobs so long you can't get them all done in a day? Are the chores required for running a household fairly divided? If she does hold down a job, then she does need help.
My sister-in-law's daughter married a fellow several years ago. She started out telling him she didn't do this and she didn't do that. One of her things was that she did not like to wash dishes and was not going to do dishes, that he would have to wash them when he came home from work. So, years went by and his work hours increased due to demand until he was working 80 hrs. a week, and still coming home and having to wash a sinkful of dishes. She did not have a job outside the home; he furnished her with a brand new car in which she tooled around the city where they lived, dropping the kids off at ballet class and shopping, lunching out and visiting her mother. She may have done some cooking and cleaning, but I would be surprised if he didn't do quite a bit of it. After ten years of it, he just broke I think. They were finally divorced, and now she has a more realistic idea of things (I hope). The family was pretty down on him right after that, but I told her grandmother (my MIL) that he had seemed to be a good daddy and husband for ten years and put up with a lot and I wasn't going to join the family in dissing him.
This may not resemble your situation at all; but for some reason I just thought of this situation when I read your post.
It is in this context that I have used the verb "to leave" with respect to the toilet seat. If you are a male, you place the seat into the "up" position to urinate, and then you "leave" it down when you are finished.
As to the covers, they must be quite thin and not too shaggy or they will indeed fall, imperiling one's manhood, possibly rendering moot any discussion of toilet seat placement.
While I appreciate what you are saying "in principle," it ignores several variables that must also fall into place to be workable "in practice."
Your word choice is correct. My wife did have to change herself, but that self that needed changing was a free-floating miasma of self-justifying rationalizations, the only two goals of which were to provide her with a secure platform to launch speculative accusations, and using those speculative accusations to transfer responsibility to me for her lack of satisfaction in life.
Personally, I believe the grandest travesty in the Christian community in dealing with this type of problem is it's failure to recognize the enemy has been busily working on mechanisms to bypass the defenses normally confered by following Biblical principles. Much like the workings of the ACLU, People for the American Way, the Democratic party, etc., our own laws instituted to protect a way of life are being subtly shifted in their application to tear down the very way of life they were designed to protect.
When I was younger, I too agreed with my wife on why we had marital problems. It took several years for me to come to the realization that no matter how many of her hoops I jumped through, there was always something slightly wrong with the way I jumped, so my remedy was invalid. In effect, she was moving the target, then blaming me for not hitting it.
It was only when I stepped back, and acting unilaterally, informed her a carress is not "grabbing," showing frustration is not "verbal abuse," arguing for my perspective is not "demeaning her," that I was able to make her understand she did not get to define reality. Her "feelings" were subjective, and if she insisted on treating them as objective I was outta there.
The case we are currently discussing is similar in that this witch has so little wrong in her life she actually has time and temperament to threaten the marriage over the thermostat! I feel confident she was absolutely filled with joy at taking the trash out in twenty degree weather, because it gave her another cudgle to use on him, and the husband is too much the naif to recognize if she had been too sick to take out the trash, she would have been too sick to take out the trash.
If she wants to throw herself on the fire, then blame him for her burns, that's her choice. But please, don't demean the guy by trying to teach him how to keep her from throwing herself on the fire.
Gawd I want your command of grammar!
If your assessment of the woman is correct and if your analogy holds, she will continue to throw herself into the fire and she will continue to blame him for her burns, and he will continue to accept responsibility; he's incapable of restraining her from jumping into the fire, he can't keep her from lighting fires, and he has no idea how to put them out. He is no fireman. He is more like a little boy chasing the fire truck, waving and imploring the driver to turn on the siren.
He must go to Firefighting School so he can learn to utilize The Shovel Of Growth to smother The Cinders Of Obstinacy And Self-Justification, and learn to work The Hose Of Discipline in order to channel The Waters Of Maturity. In so doing he will acquire the tools necessary to save them both from The Fires Of Hostility, Anger And Hatred and they can live together happily in the uncharred Forest Of The Grownups.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.