Posted on 10/02/2004 3:48:27 PM PDT by Quix
QX NOTE: Since mentioning the below in a very sparse thread, a well known FREEPER has reported a similar dream. Another FREEPER, who probably knows more than many of the rest of us put togehter, said it was . . . my words . . . compatible with other . . . data.
If you FREEPMAIL them, please let me know if I can post them anonymously on this thread. Blessings, QX
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The AP List
October 2, 2004
Meri Burlingame: Moderator
Even as many had dreams indicating in July and August that September would be a month of storms, others have had dreams saying that October would be a month of terrorism. May we be found standing in the breach as the Lord would direct us.
Meri
[QX NOTE: Meri is a long term, close friend and Sister in The Lord].
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tracey DesLauriers
September 4. 2004 5:03am.........had this dream three times...
I am standing outside, and approximately about 20 feet away from me, I see what looks like a big globe of the world.
As I begin to walk towards it, I am then lifted up far above this globe, and can now look down , and see the whole universe.
As I look far over towards the left, I see a darkening in the sky. In a blink of an eye, it strikes me that it has the resemblance of New York…the stock exchange buildings and business area. I then become aware, that as this situation is occurring, that in other parts of the world, there seem to be simultaneous attacks.
Although, I am not certain, of the exact places these attacks are also occurring, I do notice, that oil refineries, are being blown up, and I notice there seems to be those of Arabic descent as well as what appears to be Iraq, is now once again, under heavy attack, with air attacks, and ground forces, attacking just as they did in the beginning of the war…many lives are lost.
As this takes place, I look to my right, and see more destruction, and terror and death.
As I awoke, I was in tears, and kept hearing "Oct will be a significant month, Winds Of Change…Watch and Pray"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Meri Burlingame
AP List Moderator
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Out of context ? You're telling me that you didn't mean that scripture is in no way good enough to accomplish God's purpose ? Well that was certainly the tone of your post. Is it good enough or not ? The miracle we have today that spurs our belief is the Resurrection of Jesus Christ ! THAT is our SIGN ! If that's not good enough, too bad !!!
*****
You are a very confused human being....ROFL. Please copy and paste WHERE I said the Resurrection of Jesus was not enough? I think you just like to fight and spar. Makes you feel more superior. Is it working by the way? Or are you just feeding an insatiable monster.
Next heart surgery the Doc. tells me I have to have, when he says for the THIRD time, your chances are NOT good. I'll just meekly say ....Oh I'll be fine...just give me a few typed words and I won't need a miracle....I'll be fine...don't mind me...meek, humble, meek, humble
If you pray to God and he heals you, that is not necessarily a miracle in the sense I am talking about. It is simply God healing you. What I am saying is that He does not perform miracles today via the miraculous measure of the Holy Spirit.
Are modern miracles necessary to prove the bible is from God, or not ? I would like you to answer these two yes or no questions if it's not too much trouble, and if you can take time out of your busy schedule of impuning the motives of others.
*****
No..not to me..answering question #1 but doesn't mean I can't have them. But then I am such an idiot, I think the way this world operates and sustains life is a miracle. Maybe I am not one who looks for the Thunderous roll across the heavens, but hears the small whisper of a soft breeze and sees God.
What was question #2?
Then our problem is only a matter of definitions. In one sense I agree with you. What I mean is the figurative sense. I also agree with your comment about the prairies and seeing God in his creation. Even Paul states that in Romans.
What I was referring to as a miracle would be something along the lines of "an event which goes against the laws of nature, designed and performed by God through man, by means of a miraculous measure of the Holy Spirit" That's probably not the dictionary definition of miracle, but I believe it pretty much describes what happened in the 1st century. Things like a birth defect being instantly cured, etc.
There are many things that may be termed a miracle in the figurative sense, as you have very well pointed out. I see no problem with your terming God's creation a miracle.
Acts 8:13 says it was because he saw that through the laying on of the apostle's hands the Holy Ghost (miraculous measure, that is USN) was given, he offered them (the apostles USN) money.
~~~~~~~~~~~
!!!!!!!First we have to set the stage...Philip was proclaiming Christ and unclean spirits coming out of them shouting with a loud voice and the paralyzed and lame were healed and there was much rejoicing.
Acts 8:4 Therefore, those who had been scattered went about preaching the word.
5 Philip went down to the city of Samaria and began proclaiming Christ to them.
6 The crowds with one accord were giving attention to what was said by Philip, as they heard and saw the signs which he was performing.
7 For in the case of many who had unclean spirits, they were coming out of them shouting with a loud voice; and many who had been paralyzed and lame were healed.
8 So there was much rejoicing in that city.
!!!!!!! v.9-13 Simon was a man that practiced magic and the people were beliving Simon was of 'the great power of GOD'. In verse 11 and 12 we have a great change even in Simon. Between these 2 verse people believed the good news about the kingdom of GOD and the name of Jesus Christ and were being baptized. Even Simon believed and was baptized as he observed, he was constantly amazed.
9 Now there was a man named Simon, who formerly was practicing magic in the city and astonishing the people of Samaria, claiming to be someone great;
10 and they all, from smallest to greatest, were giving attention to him, saying, "This man is what is called the Great Power of God."
11 And they were giving him attention because he had for a long time astonished them with his magic arts.
12 But when they believed Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptized, men and women alike.
13 Even Simon himself believed; and after being baptized, he continued on with Philip, and as he observed signs and great miracles taking place, he was constantly amazed.
!!!!!!!v. 14-17 This seems like big news when the apostles sent in Peter and John to help out (I believe) with the peoples FAITH. Verse 15 is very important here Peter and John prayed for them that they would receive the Holy Spirit.
I believe a person can be baptized, study the bible, go to church everytime the doors are open and know scripture BUT untill they cross over to the likeness of a child in there belief of Jesus Christ and GOD IN FAITH they will never have the Holy Spirit.
IMHO!!!!!!!The Laying on of hands and PRAYING was an act by the apostles to bring down the Holy Spirit and to help the people cross over into 'having faith' that they had the Holy Spirit and the same liberties of the apostles.
I also believe this is just not a one time deal, receiveing the Holy Spirit and maintaining and KEEPING the high place of faith to preform signs and miracles is a full time job only for the sincere of HEART. I believe you can have the Holy Spirit and lose it.
I have never spoke in tougnes or preformed a mricale but there are things I have witnessed of myself. When it has had to be the Holy Spirit that took over. Another story for another day.
~~~~~~~~~~Watch what Mathew says about faith...20 And He said to them, "Because of the littleness of your faith; for truly I say to you, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you. See more reference here...
http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?SearchType=AND&language=english&version=NASB&searchpage=0&search=mustard+seed&x=14&y=8
14 Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent them Peter and John,
15 who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit.
16 For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
17 Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit.
!!!!!!! Simon tried to buy something that can only be rceived through the HOLY SPIRIT and FAITH as we see the apostles tell him in verse 20-21 May you perish with your money, because you thought you could obtain the GIFT of GOD with money, YOUR HEART IS NOT RIGHT WITH GOD.
18 Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was bestowed through the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money,
19 saying, "Give this authority to me as well, so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit."
20 But Peter said to him, "May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money!
21 "You have no part or portion in this matter, for your heart is not right before God.
!!!!!!! v 22-24 Now we see that Simon can repent and his heart forgiven. Siomon Humbled himself and ask that the apostles to pray for him.
22 "Therefore repent of this wickedness of yours, and pray the Lord that, if possible, the intention of your heart may be forgiven you.
23 "For I see that you are in the gall of bitterness and in the bondage of iniquity."
24 But Simon answered and said, "Pray to the Lord for me yourselves, so that nothing of what you have said may come upon me."
I have to run out for a while but will be back later. Give this some thought and let me know what you think.
You need to relax a little bit. Are you looking for PROOF of something? I don't understand what you are after. If a miracle is a miracle then why sub-divide it into miracles that are bigger than other miracles. Christ didn't do miracles in his own town. Why? Because of the mentality of the people. Do we not see the miracles you speak of because...one..it would be used for profit...two it would be used to prove something? God said he was no respecter of persons. The Apostles and Prophets of old are no better than we are. We are above the angels. He said "Will I find faith when I return?" I think he will find RELIGION but not alot of child like faith. A child is not intellectual, pumped full of knowledge and thinks he/she has all the answers, they just TRUST. A child does not look for a formula or a pattern as to how things are done, they just trust. Now you answer a question for me. What is YOUR testimony for the Lord? I don't want what is coming out of your head, I want what lies in your heart.
What has He done in your life? Christ preached to the simple, ignorant, uneducated and rejected and they knew Him. You know ABOUT HIM but do you know HIM? I am NOT challenging you, I am asking a simple question which should not bring anger or prideful indignation. If it does bring either of those, then you should question your motives. We all should.
I’ll share with you something I rarely share with anyone. I became a Christian because I had a vision of an angel telling me to visit a Christian elder who asked if I would come back to church one more time. Nothing in the sermon changed my life but since I was like Naaman who was willing to wash in the Jordan, God saved me and gave me a new heart from that point on.
Do I believe this vision was of God? Of course I do since from that moment I became a new creature in the Christ. But my wife thinks I’m crazy and I could just imagine the reaction I would get from my fellow Southern Baptist church members if I were to give my full testimony. And personally I don’t look on it as a sign of honor. On the contrary I look on it like God had to go the “extra” mile with me, far more than with other Christians to redeem me.
There have been other visions and dreams that I have had over the years in which I have seen God’s hand which I will not discuss. They do not help in sharing the gospel with others and distract from God’s glory by creating divisions and strife. I just recently posted something similar to this thread out on the Religion Forum and I’m sorry that I did. Others start wondering why they don’t have similar experiences leading to doubting themselves or animosity towards you. And I’m not sure if this post isn’t a spin off from that post which is creating further dissent. May God be merciful to me if it is.
If you don’t care what others feel, then you need to ask yourself if you’re willing to possibly cause a brother to stumble over a miracle that God overtly performs in your life. God works overtly and covertly in people’s lives and we all need to be thankful and focus on those things we do NOT see God doing in our lives.
!!!!!!!First we have to set the stage...Philip was proclaiming Christ and unclean spirits coming out of them shouting with a loud voice and the paralyzed and lame were healed and there was much rejoicing.
That is interesting. Philip had the miraculous gifts fo the Spirit, and he preached the gospel to Simon, yet Simon did not ask him specifically for the gifts. Why ? Because he was not an apostle, and he saw that the apostles were the ones to bestow the gifts.
!!!!!!!v. 14-17 This seems like big news when the apostles sent in Peter and John to help out (I believe) with the peoples FAITH. Verse 15 is very important here Peter and John prayed for them that they would receive the Holy Spirit.
That's not what the text says. Faith is not mentioned there. In fact, it only says they would recieve the Holy Spirit. Implicit in this is that he means the miraculous measure of the Holy Spirit.
!!!!!!! Simon tried to buy something that can only be rceived through the HOLY SPIRIT and FAITH
No, he tried to buy something that can only be received by the laying on of the apostles hands. That's what the text says.
I believe a person can be baptized, study the bible, go to church everytime the doors are open and know scripture BUT untill they cross over to the likeness of a child in there belief of Jesus Christ and GOD IN FAITH they will never have the Holy Spirit.
With all due respect, that's not what Acts 2:38 says. Every baptized believer has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
!!!!!!! v 22-24 Now we see that Simon can repent and his heart forgiven. Siomon Humbled himself and ask that the apostles to pray for him
Simon asking Peter to pray for him had nothing to do with receiving spiritual gifts, but simply a matter of forgiveness. This teaches us that we should pray for each other.
Thanks again for the mature nature of your post and looking forward to talking with you again.
I actually thought I had. My last post to you was very civil, was it not ? Or am I way off the mark here ?
Do we not see the miracles you speak of because...one..it would be used for profit...two it would be used to prove something?
No, it's because Acts 8 teaches that only the apostles could give the miraculous gifts, and they are gone now.
What has He done in your life?
Plenty. The most important of which is saving my wretched soul from eternal destruction. That in itself is enough of a "miracle" to last me the rest of my days. Anybody looking to have miracles today, in all due respect, is discounting the importance of Christ's sacrifice for mankind. God doesn't owe us any miracles today.
The Lord bless you.
That is a heart felt post. Thanks Harley...you warmed my heart. You shouldn't worry about sharing your testimony, sometimes a stumble is good for all of us. It reveals alot in our own nature, while we have been trying to find the faults in anothers nature. To see miracles in anothers life and say why not me Lord...is jealousy. All things work for the good for those who believe. We are all not perfect, Lord knows I disgust myself sometimes. But Faith, Hope and Love sustain us. Grace and Mercy cover us and we just try to improve. If you feel you have reached perfection, its a great time to fall face first in the dirt. Believe me...I have spent more than my fair share of time in the dirt pile.....rofl. Speak when your led to speak, its not mine or anyone elses call as to when or where, or who God intends for you to touch with your testimony. There was alot of kindness and gentleness in that post.
THANKS TONS! Great facts, truth and comments.
I hope to get back to this tonight or tomorrow.
I don't know if any of you are interested, willing or have time available to help with the two column thing, or not. If so, please let me know. I think maybe Davey mentioned she was but I've been immersed enough in other tasks, I'm not remembering well.
I have no significant delusions that the pharisees will change their perspectives 0.0000001% short of very miraculous intervention by God Almighty. But at 4,360 views, I do think we have an obligation to a number of lurkers to share THE TRUTH of Holy Spirit's work in our era.
I don't think the pharisees have a clue as to the horror and revulsion they will feel about their stubborn, willful, RELIGIOUS SPIRIT born blindness when their Savior causes the blinders to fall off.
Their pride seems to indicate they've never been THAT humbled. Christ's Mercy is always redemptive and brings diamonds out of cesspools. Neverthless, that level of being humbled is excruciatingly awesome and awesomely excruciating. There is no place to hide. And even 'merely' the gaze toward Peter after the cock had crowed three times had to have been awesomely devastating. There are just no words to describe having idiotically disappointed and trashed The Lord's Will and Purposes to that degree.
Add in The Father who seems to fiercely care about individuals maligning, tarnishing, trashing Holy Spirit and HIS WORK above that even of The Son and The Father . . . imagine The Father's gaze upon the realization that one has blown it to that degree.
Where there is a shred of teachableness, The Lord will be merciful. Where there is willful stubbornness, The Lord will be fierce.
I'm beginning to feel that the one who has scheduled a vivid object lesson about that what &/or the one whom he treasures the most--I'm beginning to feel that the object lesson may be sooner than I'd thought it would be. We shall see. Whether he will harden his heart against The Lord or not will be a very critical issue. Stubborn, brittle pride can be sooooo hazardous.
My impression is that the desperately needed miracle MAY NOT occur--depending on the heart attitude and the willingness to ask for it wholeheartedly with as much faith as one can muster and ask for. A proud, stubborn, resigned 'taking the loss' rather than choosing the miracle will be very tragic, indeed.
Briar, your experiences are sooooooooooooo awesome. Sounds just like the God of the New Testament! What a surprise! [/s] Sounds like the Father, The Son, The Spirit I know who've led me through such excruciating traumas as I'd have never thought were survivable--and He turned them to good as He clearly has in your life.
BTW, I agree with you about the tax thing with organized churches. I don't know that God is 100% absolutely black and white on it but I do know they've already received their rewards! They'd be better to surrender the tax exemption and trust totally in God. They could have much greater effectiveness--certainly in this critical election year!
LOVE YOU ALL DEARLY,
later,
Your 'only the apostles' thing
IS
Scripturally and logically absurd. And it's easily demonstrated--in due time.
You'd best let go of such a lie from hell.
I actually thought I had. My last post to you was very civil, was it not ? Or am I way off the mark here ?
****
LOL yeah you did a little bit, but you are crouched and ready.
****
God doesn't owe us any miracles today.
*****
No...He doesn't owe us ANYTHING but Love doesn't come in boxes of what is owed. He said He would give you the desires of your heart. He doesn't owe you that either, but freely gives, and if that means a miracle then its that too.
I still see a wall....you gave me the right words, they are perfect words, but your heart is not in them.
I agree with Christ being enough, but God's nature was to walk with his people, to interact. Thats like you saying...I made my kid...he was born wasn't he...thats enough. I think if you have kids, you want to give them all you can, or at least what you feel is in their best interest. Our Heavenly Father is no different, we were made in HIS image. All I can say...is...He is more real to me than my earthly dad, and at 50 yrs. old, I still feel like a child who can climb up in His lap and say ABBA Father, I need help, I need advice, I need a hug, I need wisdom, I need understanding. Needy little brat aren't I? rofl BUT I know He loves me and will NEVER forsake me. I don't care how it looks. Even Christ cried out...Father why have you forsaken me, but today we know He didn't forsake Him. That is just the way it felt to Jesus. We all will feel that way at times, and just try to hang on. Sorry..I get off subject sometimes but just write what I feel like I should write.
I knew I could count on more venom from you. Thanks for not disappointing. I have already demonstrated the truth of that position numerous times.
Alright boys...gloves off. ALL doctrinal issues put aside, I bet you two have alot in common. Strong personalities, committed to what you set you minds to do. Determined, tenatious. ALL good things pointed in the right direction. I KNOW you both believe in Faith, Hope and Love....lets start there!!! rofl.
0.0% venom.
Fierceness, zeal for The Truth and against hell's lies--especially in this area.
You haven't demonstrated any such thing AT ALL! That you think that you have is very sad and very telling.
100% BS
BTW, FRED,
Who the blazes are YOU
to be accusing me of venom???
I guess you have a very short memory!
And, Dr, E? was it? if one doesn't want to be called a thread thief, it's very easy on a thread I start--
DO NOT ****BE**** ONE!
I keep having a recurring dream that he will be abducted.
Calling
THE TRUTH
about
HOLY SPIRIT AND HIS WORK
BS
is NOT a good . . .
way to earn Father's favor;
survival habit;
Scriptural understanding and applying thing;
way to show intellecutal capacity;
remotely the faintest indication of a teachable spirit willing to allow Holy Spirit to lead into all truth;
evidence of good horse sense;
. . .
. . .
Briar--plenty of good, discerning exhortation . . . been working on it! LOL.
THX.
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