Is The End Of The World As WeKnow It Right Around The Corner? (Lunacy or The Coverup Of History?)

PTB = Powers that be

How stoopid of me for not knowing that. Ok, one more point AGAINST him. "Powers that be" is one more phrase used regularily by the conspiracy theorists. Duh... I feel like an idiot for not catching that one. Thanks.

The US is expecting to be attacked by terrorist any time from now to just before the election. The ships being at sea makes them a much tougher target. They are most vulnerable in port.

Yes, correct. Exactly correct.

Thank you for your rational input and hard work on this thread's subject. Could you please explain exactly how it is that if we will be passing into a dust cloud that the sun will become "whiter" while the moon becomes red?

Thanks. Yes, certainly. That's actually a pretty easy question, even though I might not be 100% accurate. The sun is actually "yellow". White light is light made up of many (all) of the various colors of the spectrum. I can't exactly explain why there will be more "white" though. It would perhaps seem that way if certain colors were "dimmed" from the main spectral line. That is, let's say that most of the "yellow" is removed by going through the dust (which is likely) and therefore whatever colors are left will appear more "white".

The moon normally receives light directly from the sun, we see that light reflected off the surface. The light hitting the moon, which will already be somewhat "dimmed" and perhaps "whiter" with then reflect through more dust to the earth, at night. That dust will remove most of the blue components from the light (which makes me think that most things we see will appear "redder".

The difference is... the sun is generating the light. The moon is reflecting it.

A kind of analogy would be a television set screen (regular CRT) and a painting containing all the colors of the rainbow. The light from a television is generated, using RED, GREEN and BLUE. The light you see on a painting is REFLECTED and some colors are ABSORBED, therefore even though we see "red as red" one is the result of other colors being absorbed, and the other (the TV) is generated light.

I'm sure that isn't the best explanation, but it's about as close to correct as I can explain it without digging through a bunch of old books, and just using my memory :)

If the moon is to shine red, that means the dust cloud is not hydrogen, but heavy elements. If it is heavy elements, then the sun would not shine more brightly.

It's a dust cloud, not a hydrogen cloud. Hydrogen, if I recall correctly tends to have a yellowish color when burned. Been a long, long, long, long time since high school chemistry classes. But if it is DUST... remember when all the fires were burning last year and year before in CA and here in CO? We had brilliant red skies at night here in CO. I'd bet those east of the fires in CA had the same thing.

To me, AB's constant references to satellites falling from the sky and spreading radiation all over shows the true agenda: environazi who also dislikes the US intensely since Skylab. No to mention the timing of this - it could almost be an internet based trailer for Day After Tomorrow.

Agreed, I think I mentioined something about that (something about leftists, anti-war, anti-nuke or something like that). The VAST MAJORITY of these folks with the conspiracies are ALL leftists, as well as Anarchists, socialists and communists.

Fear is their most often used tool, and making the ignorant among us fearful is what has kept them alive since the beginning of man's existence. < br>
Which is why I make these sorts of things part of a PERSONAL crusade to correct the incorrect, right the wrongs, to explain the "unexplanable" and to show the TRUE FACTS about a subject, instead of allow ignorance to reign free on the internet. I'm not a "debunker" (hey, I believe Big Foot is REAL for Pete's Sake!) but I will certainly find out about the truth and tell everyone who will listen. Hasn't there been several discoveries over the past several years by amateur astronomers of comets, meteors, etc? To think that "Dr. Gartrell" is one of only a few people with this information, and several folks with specifics direct you to their web-site, where they try mightily to sell you merchandise is one red-flag that goes up.

There are a half-dozen programs throughout the world looking at Near Earth Asteroids and PHAs or Potentially Hazardous Asteroids. They have been looking for them in ernest since Shoemaker-Levy 9 smashed into Jupiter. It was realized (being the first time we'd ever SEEN a planetary impact) FINALLY what the real dangers are of having a piece of rock hit us. So, over the past 5-6 years or so, they have discovered close to 2000 of these objects, tracked them carefully, and calculated the probabilities of an Earth impact. ALL of that data is available right here on the internet. They don't hide it, contrary to popular conspiracy belief. I've shown this several times in the past year on other sites when people started screaming about "They are keeping information from us". When you show that info, they start yelling how we're being provided with BOGUS information. You can't please conspiracy theorists. There's no need to try. Simply show them to be liars or "makers up of stories" and move on. LOL

Just a note as this thread winds down...

As I thought from the beginning, another bogus journey into how far the fear will spread, before the truth came to light, thru the hard work of a very few, including Rick.

What concerns me, and not just because of my background, but because I've seen it over and over again, throughout the past few years, is the lack of discussion of what each of us *should* do, if such as threat as this thread brought, should come around to be true some day in the future.

Just as Rick is, I've been watching the skies for decades, starting when I was ten, having the ability to give friends and families tours of the sky with binoculars, telescopes, and the naked eye of the constellations, the parade of planets, the meteor showers, the comets, and all those interesting things hidden out there. I've enjoyed the LINEAR and NEAT comets coming around in the same time frame, and from my perspective here is wide open Wyoming, its a beautiful site.

I've built telescopes from scratch, have more than a few astonomy programs, and understand the cyclicle nature of the planets, the solar system the galaxy, and the dance of the stars more then most, in time frames that others never try to fathom.

I do not fear the unknown, and never have...I embrace it. I consider myself a pragmatist..."stuff" happens, with no control from any of us, and one of the things that occurs, with regular, if stilted, freqeuncy, is earth impacts of space debris from around the universe. But, being a pragmatist, also allows me to know that *I* can plan and respond and react to whatever DOES happen, so that soon afterwards, I can continue on in my life in some semblance of normalcy.

It happens literally a MILLION times a day, every day, year in and year out. Dust particles, micrometeorites, giant ice balls including those photographed by NASA over the years, debris and smoke particles from larger space rocks that vaporize a hundred miles up in the atmosphere...it all hits the earth at some point...thanks to gravity.

My point is we don't think about this, and we should. Yes, the larger ones, like the one over Washington state a few days ago, remind us that "things" are up there, and aimed at us all the time. Why does it take the threat of a life-ending impact, to bring us around to consider "what do we do, where do we go, how will we go on"...mode of inner turmoil, that STILL won't let us get around to discussing and planning, how we could truly react and mitigate PERSONAL loss and death in the face of a REAL impact.

In over 220 posts in this thread, most of which tried to pursue truth and verification, there were interspersed precious little comments about what could and should be done by EACH of us, to prepare for the literal worst thing that could happen.

I suppose it is just human nature, to personally want to comtemplate our souls, our reasons for living, and even our navels, when some, or all, of the 4 horsemen are heard to be just over the horizon, and headed our way. But, if we as a civilization are to continue and prosper throughout the rest of the ages, we are going to HAVE to consider and discuss in open forums such as this, IN TIMES of threat, actions that we as a society, a family, a community, should truly plan and act on, for when the threat IS real.

If not this time, when?

If not this threat, then what?

If not this group, then where?

ALL of us here, in this forum, and preferably, on this board, are intelligent, caring people. The trolls, and provokers here, such as AB, DO serve a purpose, in getting US to think of things we normally don't.

Are we going to PLAN to take the time to make good, guided decisions on actions we should take for the time that Everest-sized rock falls on Canada again?

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,63728,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_4

Are we going to wait until the threat from space IS real, and the entire population of the world's attention is required to be turned to fight the menace, such as late President Ronald Reagon refered to years ago in a speech about "an alien threat" during a December 4, 1985, speech at the Fallston High School in Maryland, where he spoke about his first summit with General Secretary Gorbachev in Geneva. According to a White House transcript, Reagan remarked that during his 5-hour private discussions with Gorbachev, he told [Gorbachev] to think, "how easy his task and mine might be in these meetings that we held if suddenly there was a threat to this world from some other species from another planet outside in the universe. We'd forget all the little local differences that we have between our countries ..."

Replace "Aliens" with "Giant Flaming Rocks From Space", and yes, the world WOULD come together if the threat was real.

Come'on, people. It's NOT real this time...but what are you going to do when it is? Or, are you going to shut down, run around in circles in your yards screaming, "the end is near, the end is near", have panic sex in your last hours, or make a mad dash to become a classic liberalists few of a survivalist, and raid the gun shops, grocery stores, and SUV dealers and head for the hills, without any planning or forthought?

This thread is not quite done, I think...

Let's turn our attention to CALMLY discussing what our families could REALLY do, if a ROCK was really headed our way.

Give it a shot, it could turn out to be one of the best things you ever do.

Richard

Nice post. This is the stuff of "survival". The kind of thing I've tried to teach my children and now my grandkids over the years, not to mention many other people (my own web site is a "survival site", but pragmatism is the key.

We store extra food and water here, in the event we need it, natural disasters, etc. I think it WILL happen someday. I think a lot of things could happen.

Seen President Reagan pass today brought back a lot of memories of when I worked there at the WHite House. One of them was Reagan himself telling us stories sitting under a tree on his ranch when he'd grown tired of chopping logs. He believed, from the things he said, that there are greater threats out there than "Communists" and "antigovernment" people (his words). The greatest threats to mankind, other than itself lies beyond the edge of our atmosphere, in space. Some day, he said, we will have to face it. To this day, I really am not sure if he was referring to "aliens" or "space rocks". I know what a threat from space is. I think it is space rocks.

Others are pursuing catching up with this so-called Doctor. I'll keep going, but no promises. If I get anything on the radio data, I'll let you all know.

Ok, I had dismissed the Aussie Bloke as a hoax and now CBS is showing Deep Impact. Coincedence? Very Strange.

If you think Deep Impact is weird....

Next Saturday evening, on the SciFi Channel... there is a show called "Post Impact" with Dean Cain (TV series Superman).

WEIRD coincidence....

It gets worse...

Go rent SUDDEN IMPACT...

It'll "make your day"...

Richard

WEIRD coincidence....

But it is just that - a coincidence. My guess is that these movies are being shown in the spirit of movie in theatres "The Day After Tomorrow" (think that's the name).

This "Post Impact" moving coming on SciFi has been advertised for a few weeks now, at least as long as the "Day after tomorrow" stuff. So, no, I don't think so. It was made probably in the last few months, and not in RESPONSE to "Day after". "Post Impact" is about what happens AFTER a meteor impact, apparently. I've only seen the quick ads and trailers for it so far. I'll be watching it though, just for good measure :)

Speaking of all this impact, let us inspect what has happened to "impact" the life of a kindly, old scientist, who possibly ( according to one Python skit )smells of berries...

The VERY last Word, on Aussie Bloke...from the REAL Dr. Gartrell...

<-- begin quote -->

http://news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,9767410%5E2682,00.html

Caught in a comet's tale

By SAMELA HARRIS

June 7, 2004

A RETIRED Adelaide physicist has been dragged into an Internet hysteria – about a comet hitting Earth – by an imposter who has cast him as a doomsayer.

The drama has been unfolding around the world for a month, but has only just come to the attention of an angry Dr Grant Gartrell, a victim of identity theft and, as a result, the man credited with the end-of-the-world predictions.

"I am very displeased to be caught up in a hoax," he said.

Dr Gartrell's name has been widely published on the Internet as the originator of a prediction that comets were heading for Earth.

The 60-year-old, who now runs a blueberry farm at Mt Compass, has written a thesis on comets, but says that's where the connection ends.

Returning on Saturday from a caving conference in Tasmania, he found his telephone message bank and his e-mail crammed with messages from overseas – including one from a US journalist keen to break the comet story.

The person posing as Dr Gartrell first posted messages on Internet sites from "Aussie Bloke". He then identified himself as Dr Gartrell.

According to the hoaxer, the world does not have long to go and, tomorrow ,"the first dust cloud reaches earth", with a "darkening of skies".

The first comet impact is supposedly scheduled for June 18-20, with second and third impacts a few days later. "I have no idea who is posing as me and making predictions of imminent cataclysmic cometary impacts," Dr Gartrell said.

"I am one of the authors of an article on meteors which appeared in the Australian Journal of Physics in 1975 but, although still interested in it, I have not actively worked in that field much since that time."

Hundreds of Internet pages have been devoted to claims that comets are approaching Earth. Some tell people to go to a remote place with supplies and wait for the end.

"There is more chance of winning the lottery than of a comet striking earth," Dr Gartrell said.

"There is always a finite possibility of the impact of space debris and I am certainly in favour of the work being done on early-warning systems, but I have no knowledge whatsoever of any ... imminent threat. I have never met any of the people who are making such claims on the Internet and, for my own part, I am planning travel arrangements for conferences I expect to attend in several years time."

The Advertiser

<-- end quote -->

See what happens when one pulls a practical joke of COSMIC proportions? Real people get hurt...

Richard

WooT! I'm GLAD he came forward.

I'm glad it's a hoax.

Wish I could be as certain about the alleged 'recording".

I'm not, however.

I've been working on this thing for a few days now. As of this evening I'm reasonably certain it is a REAL RECORDING (I'm sure it has NOTHING to do with this story though at this point). However, some things have intrigued me about this audio recording.

The digital data is real, I can't seem to decode it at this point. The morse code is real. THe callsign, technically BEACON says "HOBO". It is sent several times in the background. I've yet to locate any radio station with a CWID of HOBO. (I've run a spectral analysis of the audio using just the frequencies that encompass the actual CW signal and have pretty much verified the morse code). CW for those who don't know is another name for morse code (stands for continuous wave, I won't explain details here, message me if you want better explanation).

There is not one, but two sets of digital data. They SEEM to be communicating. It's a type of packet structure, as I though, judging from the spectrum analyzer, I just can't read it. Probably encryped. (shrugs)

I'm trying to get some other software to help me examine it more carefully. No promises though.

The "signals", in particular "Snowball" suffers at least once from something we hams call QSB, or FADING. Some of the other stations show QSB as well. That tells me that is most likely a real received radio signal.

I have not located the original source of the recording. If anyone knows, or the real recording person is reading this, contact me ASAP. I'll keep your identity confidential (even if you tell me it's a hoax, which is fine, but you'll have to prove you recorded it, I'll expect an original tape or the full recording, not just the smal amount we have now). I've got to have some verification you're who you claim. If anyone KNOWS who did it, contact me, please.

Here's my immediate but, perhaps not complete, conclusion.

1) Dr. G's name, as someone suggested was hijacked (we suspected this all along).

2) There is probably NO comet strike at this time :) (as we suspected)

3) The radio recording is, in all probability REAL (but also probably NOT related to this particular story) -- which makes me even that much more inclined to figure that one out as an aside.

4) The psychology of hoaxers like this are ... well, like a Profiler would say, pretty much the same. I've personally dealt with so many of these people over the years that I'm reasonable certain when I see a hoaxer pop up his evil head, in particular when it comes to these sorts of "scientific anomalies". They all have a very similar modus operandi. They all post similar messages (especially some of the stuff I pointed out before). And they all have this kind of "in your face" and "I dare you to prove me wrong" attitude.

ALL of them without exception try to give you some "scientific facts" mixed in with the nonsense, just enough to make you wonder, especially if you're not very well versed in science. I caught a whole bunch of mistaks and posted SOME of those here previously.

I guess that brings this thread to an untimely end (or timely?) Though, I will still be watching the sun and moon over the next couple of weeks for signs of inordinate dimming. :) What really scares me though, isn't the "hoax", it's that damned recording. If it is real, and I'm reasonably certain it is a real recording, then SOMETHING is going to "impact" around 23 June... someplace. What that is, where it is going to impact and why, remains a mystery at this time. That's it for now, folks. Best wishes to all , and THANKS forputting up with me. Rick

okay, now I am officially spooked. Before I was just merely spooked.

What really scares me though, isn't the "hoax", it's that damned recording. If it is real, and I'm reasonably certain it is a real recording, then SOMETHING is going to "impact" around 23 June... someplace. What that is, where it is going to impact and why, remains a mystery at this time. That's it for now, folks. Best wishes to all , and THANKS forputting up with me. Rick

Isn't the matter of the recording being real seperate from the veracity of the information contained in the recording? In other words, could not have someone actually made such a transmission (i.e. it's an authentic tranmission), but yet message tramsmitted is false, or made-up?

If this is the "Snowball" recording, hasn't that been around for 2-3 years now?

Isn't the matter of the recording being real seperate from the veracity of the information contained in the recording? In other words, could not have someone actually made such a transmission (i.e. it's an authentic tranmission), but yet message tramsmitted is false, or made-up?

Actually, yes. You're correct. On all accounts. What I meant when I said "scared me" isn't that I'm "scared", it's that people take the time to plan out hoaxes like that, and then use whatever pieces of information they can to link their theory with "facts".

I'm more than reasonably certain the radio recording is authentic. I don't have a source, I don't have dates and times, and we don't know the context in which the messages were sent, therefore we really do not know what the subject of the material is.

The fact is, that could have easily been a recording made of NORAD and they are tracking a particular piece of space debris that is going to reenter. It could be anything along those lines.

Last night after I posted the messages above (and some other messages on another site) I did a bit more study of the 'recording'. I now believe that it probably WAS NOT done on an HF radio, but rather was recorded from a UHF or VHF system. I think that, because in looking at the data tracks, the speed of the data and the amount of data transmitted, I don't believe that it would even WORK over HF. I could be wrong on this account though, this last just being a supposition. I just don't believe anyone is transmitting 9600 baud digital data over an HF system. Who knows though?

Boy I was tired last night. Correction: the morse code signal is HOVO. NOT HOBO. . . . _ is V. _ ... is B. I was brain dead or something. Oh well.

So the information packets may indeed be telemetry regarding the incoming "snowball"?

I too am glad that the main part of this is now certified as a hoax, but like yourself will be keeping an eye on the skies at night until later this month, as well as supplies on hand and plenty of ammo.

Without the snowball recording, one would take the coincidental events of today and surmise that there may be either a large terrorist strike and/or a large preemptive strike in the works for the last week of this month. If I were a mullah in Iran, a North Korean military member, or even a Chinese Communist Party member, I'd be worried about my future. Nothing like multiple sunrises, and there would be little or no warning should our strike come from space. Sleep tight, Axis of Evil..........

So the information packets may indeed be telemetry regarding the incoming "snowball"?

Honestly, I have no idea what the data packets are. I've not been able to decode them, not to say they are encrypted or anything, but I simply do not (at the moment) have the right software to try to figure out what that data is.

I too am glad that the main part of this is now certified as a hoax, but like yourself will be keeping an eye on the skies at night until later this month, as well as supplies on hand and plenty of ammo.

I say most of it is a hoax. With the recording, the problem I have with it, isn't so much that it isn't "real", but rather there is no authentication data with it. The recording came from a couple of different places, and yet, the only connecting, forensic data we have is that it "came from a member of a ham club". Generally, "ham clubs" don't sit and monitor traffic that isn't ham-related (and the alleged frequency on which this was heard was not a Ham band in ANY country). Furthermore, we really do NOT know the date and time it was recorded, nor by whom it was recorded, nor really the frequency.

In other words, even if it isn't a "hoax recording" (which I doubt), the rest of the missing data would tell us what it means. Without that data we can guess all we want, but probably not hit the real reason for the broadcasts.

I thought everyone kept a supply of ammo??? :)

Without the snowball recording, one would take the coincidental events of today and surmise that there may be either a large terrorist strike and/or a large preemptive strike in the works for the last week of this month. If I were a mullah in Iran, a North Korean military member, or even a Chinese Communist Party member, I'd be worried about my future. Nothing like multiple sunrises, and there would be little or no warning should our strike come from space. Sleep tight, Axis of Evil..........

A friend of mine that works with one of these private intelligence collection "companies" gave me some information a few weeks back. It was a translation of one of these "terrorist websites" they'd found, with some "threats". In it, they talked about "stars" "coming together" (or alignments). I spent some time on the computer running some sky scenarios. There were several times throughout last month that certain "stars" would "align". Nothing happened though. I bring this up because it is sometimes difficult to say what "intel" will tell you.

The messages were saying how there was going to be some sort of devastating attack on the US and allies when certain "stars" lined up. Everyone knows that stars do not move (well, they do, albeit, SLOWLY), but planets DO. And the term "Planet" is actually a translation of the phrase "Wanderer" or "Wandering Star".

Many other religions (and non-religions) put a lot of stock in the "alignment of stars". If *I* were a bad guy and wanted to plan something for a particular time, but didn't want to give a date and time for that thing to happen, I might spend some time isolating certain celestial events, and using "metaphores" to supply the information. Indeed, that has been done several times throughout this war on terrorism to my knowledge. I'm not sure if identifying these types of messages help us to stop terrorist attacks, but I'd be willing to bet they have. If *I* can figure it out, so can our intelligence analysts, and the so can the bad guys.

The point to this is that the "snowball recording" perhaps has nothing whatsoever to do with anything we can imagine (it might be a countdown until some piece of space debris comes crashing down, who knows?) There are many other, more important pieces of information that pass through this site though, that DO TELL what is going to happen. I'm inclined to believe that a lot of intelligence folks use this site to collect that open source intelligence, and this recording is a "blip" on the radar that will pass into the night without us ever knowing the true facts behind it.

ping

would be interested in a ping if there is any new speculation...

One thing I have not seen mentioned here is that around June 20 is the solstice.

Speculation? No problem.

The near-Earth-asteroid Itokawa comes around during the Sagittarid meteor shower. Link and info from there are below. This is no big surprise, there are meteor showers of impressive to *yawn* pretty much all the time. Itokawa was bound to occur regularly at the same time as _some_ meteor shower or other.

Meteor showers are the left over solids from a comet that has lost all of its ice. This debris is in roughly the same orbit as the comet, but because it is mostly small stuff it is affected by the solar wind and gravity of bodies it passes and gradually spreads out, but still pretty much along that orbital path. The densest part of the debris is where the last leftovers of the comet head are still clumped and haven't spread out evenly yet.

_If_ Itokawa is an unusually large chunk from the comet head that created the Sagittarids, it might mark the dense part of the debris field. The Sagittarids are associated with fireballs, so there's larger stuff than just sand and dust in that orbit.

Itokawa has come closer than 0.1 AU on six occasions in the last century. Three times those close passes where from the north well before we entered the meteor stream. Three times it was near while we were in the meteor stream. One of those times was when the Tungusta explosion occurred.

Itokawa is approaching and will be at its closest on June 26. We've already had several reports of fireballs. Are we in a window of high risk?

http://snegazers.brainiac.com/snegazers/archive/0203/msg00052.html

"The Sagittarids (SAG) start to appear about April 15th, and will last until about mid-July. This is a complex of radiants near the ecliptic, and is believed to be the debris from a number of unknown bodies. Fireballs have
been associated with this shower. On April 20th, the Sagittarid radiant will be at 227 degrees, ie RA 15h 7.8m, Dec -18, which is about 7 degrees north of the star sigma Libra. These meteors are almost slow, with a velocity of about 30 km per second, and the ZHR rates are about 5 meteors per hour."

MataPam
Ooo! First post here (long term lurker) and I got to lecture!