The Hobbit Hole VI - And Whither Then? I Cannot Say...

[ecurbh]

Welcome to The Hobbit Hole!

And Whither Then? I Cannot Say...

• First thread: New Zealander builds Hobbit hole
• Second thread: The New Hobbit Hole
• Third thread: The Hobbit Hole III - Journey to the Cross-roads! (Congratulations, we filled it up!)
• Fourth Thread: The Hobbit Hole IV - The Road Goes Ever On...
• Fifth Thread: The Hobbit Hole V - Where Many Paths and Errands Meet...

The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,
Pursuing it with eager feet,
Until it joins some larger way
Where many paths and errands meet.
And whither then? I cannot say.

[Professional Engineer]

"Proud to be Cherokee."

My Other Car is a JEEP Too.

[HairOfTheDog]

The horses are a little bored. It is a dreary grey day here and they are napping on their feet passing the time!

They could used some carrots, and I could use some air. Might go out there in a bit and wake-em-up.

[Professional Engineer]

[PurpleQ]

Bummer for the horses! Although I wouldn't mind a nap myself.

We have some donkeys on the property behind our house (my little 5 year old, Jeric, thinks they are his donkeys) and I can never keep carrots. Jeric is always stealing them and taking them to the donkeys.

[HairOfTheDog]

Heh.... Donkeys are a riot!

[JenB]

Hehehe...

[Fedora]

> Oh Fedora! Those things you are reading are very exciting to me! I'd like to know more!

> Unfortunately, right now, I'm buried in textbooks I have to review for work... and Tolkien is not in the stack right now. But, I was in the middle of the Silmarillion for the umpteenth time in preparation for reading the Book of Lost Tales immediately afterward cause I was wanting to outline comparisons. But, with the textbooks, I think that plan fizzled.

What, no Tolkien textbooks at your work? :) Seriously, though, what do you do for work?--sounds like you're in teaching maybe? What kind of textbooks are you reviewing?

On what I'm reading, actually I've also been rereading "Silmarillion" lately as background for working through "Lost Tales" (as well as "The History of Middle Earth" which I finally got recently), so I'd be interested to hear what comparisons you come up with. What got me into the project I'm doing was Shippey's book mentioning that Tolkien got some of his ideas on the different races of elves from the Norse concept of light and dark elves, and that Tolkien also got many of the names of the dwarves from the Norse poem "Volupsa" which appears in variant form in Snorri Sturluson's "Prose Edda". Here is Snorri's version:

"The dwarfs had first emerged and come to light in Ymir's flesh. . .Modsognir was the most famous, and next to him Durin. As it says in the 'Sibyl's Vision'. . .And the sibyl gives their names:

. . .Althjof, Dvalin

Niping, Dain,

Bifur, Bafur,

Bombor, Nori,

Ori, Onar

Oin, Mjodvitnir,

Vig and Ganndalf,

Vinndalf, Thorin,

Fili, Kili,

Fundin, Vali,

Thror, Throin. . .

And these too are dwarfs and they live in rocks, but the above-mentioned live in earth:

Draupnir, Dolgthvari. . .

Hledjolf, Gloin,

Dori, Ori. . ."

And in another place Snorri says,

"In the southern end of heaven is the most beautiful hall of all, brighter than the sun; it is called Gimle. . ."

Reading this got me very interested in learning more about how Tolkien was drawing from the Norse tradition and other traditions. So I started going through "Silmarillion" and taking chapter-by-chapter notes on which traditions Tolkien was drawing from in each chapter. For instance in "Ainulindale", the name "Iluvatar" meaning "Father of All" is an allusion to a Norse name for the supreme deity which Snorri mentions in the same work quoted above: "Gylfi began his questioning, 'Who is the foremost or oldest of all the gods?' High One replied: 'He is called All-father in our tongue, but in ancient Asgard he had twelve names. . .'" Also I interpret the name "Eru" as an allusion to Greek philosophy's concept of God as "the One"; and of course there are many allusions to the Bible in that part of "Silmarillion" as well. So I started going through each chapter and finding everything I could find like that. I guess one of these days I should write it up into readable form. Maybe I'll post some of it for discussion if people are interested.

[PurpleQ]

Yes they are! I have to really watch when they are up at the fence line. They are very frisky fellows and they will start kicking and hollering' when they know Jeric has those carrots for 'em.

[Fedora]

> All friendly folk (and some that we love anyhow) are welcome here... So what brings you to this part of the forum?

2jedismom was kind enough to invite me after she posted a quotation from "Silmarillion" on another thread and I chimed in :) I've been a Tolkien reader since about 1977 when I happened, while flipping through channels, to catch the animated version of "The Hobbit" on TV and was instantly hooked. I read as a fan for many years and started getting into it on a scholarly level later when I chanced to meet someone in the English Department at Marquette who was doing work on Tolkien and Lord Dunsany. The new movies have re-inspired me and now I'm working on my own fantasy series building on some of Tolkien's ideas. So I was happy to hear there's a Tolkien fan forum on Free Republic :) I had noticed the "New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole Thread" a while back and was wondering what happened to it, and 2jedismom pointed me in this direction :)

[JenB]

Ever read "Kalevala", the Finnish epic poem? It is very Silmarillion-like. In fact "Turin Turambar" is very similar to a story from Kalevala... think the hero's name was Kullervo, but the stories are almost identical.

[JenB]

Tolkien-based fantasy series, eh? How so? Not just another "Sword of Shannara"/"Belgariad"/"Wheel of Time" thing, I'm sure?

[Fedora]

>> ... So what brings you to this part of the forum?
>
>Got lost on the way to the habardashary?

Well, I was going down the River Anduin and I had gotten as far as the lawn of Parth Galen, but from there I wasn't sure whether to turn west to Gondor or east to Mordor. So having no guide I decided I could do no better than to follow Bugs Bunny's example and take a left turn at Albuquerque, and to my surprise it came out here! :) Now that I'm here, though, now that you mention it, where *can* I find a good haberdashery?--I've been meaning to get out of this mithral shirt, it's good protection and all but it's deucedly uncomfortable. . .

[Fedora]

> I keep forgetting to say "hi"!

Hi! :) Thanks for the greeting!

[Professional Engineer]

Gonna trade a mithral shirt for a het? Yer a brave Hobbit, indeeed!

[Professional Engineer]

Gonna trade a mithral shirt for a hat? Yer a brave Hobbit, indeeed!

[Fedora]

> Ever read "Kalevala", the Finnish epic poem? It is very Silmarillion-like. In fact "Turin Turambar" is very similar to a story from Kalevala... think the hero's name was Kullervo, but the stories are almost identical.

I read "Kalevala" once, but feel a need to read it again to really absorb it. I did take a few notes on possible parallels between "Silmarillion" and "Kalevala"--as I'm looking at them now I notice one thing I wrote down was "Turin parallels Finnish Kullervo" :) I also jotted down that I thought the sampo played a similar function to the silmarils; that the end of Kalevala with Vainamoinen sailing into the heavens parallels the voyage of Earendil; and that the eagles in Runo 7 may have influenced the eagles in "The Hobbit".

[JenB]

The stories of the Sun and Moon had a few parallels, too.

I love the way Kalevala sounds. Its rhythms. Makes me wish I knew Finnish. Tolkien read it in the original, I believe...

[Corin Stormhands]

Not just another "Sword of Shannara"/"Belgariad"/"Wheel of Time" thing, I'm sure?

What didn't you like about the "Shannara" books? I've read most of them, although I sorta lost count on the last few editions.

Never could really get into the "Belgariad" series. Read a couple (or was it just one?).

Have you read Katherine Kurtzman's "Deryni Chronicles?" I think I may have missed the last of those as well.

Most of these I read pre-marriage/pre-children (yes, in that order).

[Fedora]

> Tolkien-based fantasy series, eh? How so? Not just another "Sword of Shannara"/"Belgariad"/"Wheel of Time" thing, I'm sure?

No, no "Sword of Shannara"--that was a little *too* close to Tolkien IMO :) What I'm doing is inspired by the Christian theory of comparative mythology Tolkien advances in "On Fairy-Stories". IMO in "Silmarillion" one thing Tolkien is doing is using his "sub-creator" theory to generate a storyline that uses the Biblical tradition to interpret elements of a number of non-Biblical traditions. I'm doing something similar, except my backstory is set in ancient historical Earth rather than Middle Earth; and it's also got a horror element to it, combining the Jewish Pseudopigrapha's concept of the Watchers with H.P. Lovecraft's "Old Ones" demonology. So far I've finished a rough draft of the first book, but I've got a lot to do yet.

[Professional Engineer]

Msdrby got the latest Deryni novel recently. She's already read it, but I haven't yet. The whole series is mighty good reading.