Carry and Ammunition Suggestions for Condition Orange (Freeper Suggestions-Vanity)

The Usual Suspects ^ | 12/21/2003 | Section9

[section9]

Well folks, it's that time of year again. Tom Ridge and the people at DHS have received the analysis of the chatter gathered by NRO, DIA, and other assorted alphabet agencies and it appears that the Rags have decided to do the whole Grinch thing.

Naturally, Americans can be an awfully accomodating bunch, in that 72 virgins kind of way, so I was wondering that given that the threat board just went to orange, what are the Best Practices for carry, ammunition, and accessories during this period. In other words, are you stuck with your 9mm when you're going about your Christmas shopping, or should one carry the 12 guage in the gun rack.

I'm serious, folks. I'm not being facetious. It only sounds that way. I have been expecting terrorists to make guerilla style attacks and acts of sabotage in the U.S. for two years now as an expression of Islamic "manhood". Unfortunately for them, there's something called the Second Amendment. So this thread is for practical suggestions for carry and concealment, choice of firearms and ammunition in a low intensity warfare environment, and of course, best practices for small unit tactics in case you run into the Madrass Jihad for Allah (as opposed to, say, the Campus Crusade for Christ).

Be Seeing You,

Chris

[PoorMuttly]

Do you know anything about the .45 Rowland ? Did it work, or fizzle out ?

What a handy cannon it would make, and also cycle Ball.

Too bad the 10mm is something of a hen's tooth. It's probably what I'm looking for. I am investigating conversion kits, and would really like to get a 1911 that could be converted to other ctgs., depending on availability, and need.

[Squantos]

Agree 101% PM......

You'll never hear me talk bad about the BHP (P-35). I have 2 of em. One is a Morgan UT version and the other is a FN that got a workover from Cylinder and Slide for carry. I still pick it up today for road trips for all the reasons you stated. It'll punch vehicle glass and door panels nicely when need be. I have had 45ACP slide off a raked windshield vs going thru it. DPS here in Texas dropped the 45ACP for just such a reason and went 357SIG.

I love my Hi Powers and carry the 115gr Cor-Bon JHP.........(Catalog # COR09115.... CORBON 9MM+P 115GR JHP) .

I am firm believer that hits count vs caliber and the Browning designs of the 1911 and P35 make those hits faster and easier than any other handgun made if the shooters are properly skilled in their use and up keep. Mine has the novak low mounts with the H3 bar dots and the cylinder and slide "wide" trigger that removed the mag safety also. Uncle mikes checkered rubber slabs and some key placed skateboard tape vs stippling rounds out my BHP carry.

But your key statement is valid .....if ya know your gonna have to fight then bring a long gun vs a handgun everytime. My daily run to the store or mailbox is in vehicles that have either my "new" bone stock M1A from SA, a old Swedish Mauser in 6.5x55 that is cut down and wears a cheap 6-18X tasco chunk of glass but will punch 50 cent pieces at three hundred yards all day long. or my old Remington 700 poor boy copy of the M40 sniper rifle.

Always have a rifle and a handgun when traveling. If I can't take such then I don't go there....:o)

Stay Safe PoorMuttly..........Hope your holiday is easy and kind to you and yours and Santa brings ya some of the 115gr Cor-bon to test.......

[Squantos]

No but was looking at the 400 corbon for converting a norinco 1911A1 I recently found in my safe. I have an old Norinco and a NIB one that is an investment buy so I am gonna convert to the old one to 400 cor-bon to just test that round.

I am thinking I won't like it as I like the quick , low recoil of the 1911A1 and P35's ability to get back on target fast from recoil. It may make a fine woods gun but I'm no so inclined for self defense use.

You seen the 45GAP yet (Glock 37 ?)........???

Stay Safe !

[PoorMuttly]

So the 115gr. +P+ Cor-Bons are good, eigh ? That would perhaps extend my effective range a bit...if they have enough steam left out there. Why do you use them ? Just seems to me that heavier is better, once the caliber is small. But I will try. May be just the thing for the pesky (fangy) coyotes here. Hope it is.

Doesn't a 180gr. .45ACP cover the .400 turf ? Can't much argue with having fun at it, though, and it probably shoots flatter...always useful.

I encountered a rather large and unimpressed bobcat here some weeks ago, and now have a Border Collie puppy to protect, so a bit of fast, heavy punch seems the prudent move for me to carry now. Cats are good predators...and we are in the mouse family. Hopefully, my gun isn't...but if they really want you, it's pretty much done. Our autos fill the bill there...if things get sudden and close, as do DA revolvers...not being expert by any means at the SAA.

Yet.

Be happy and well, my friend...and that goes for the bunch of ya' !

[Squantos]

I think modern bullet designs will allow the faster and lighter ammo as long as the energy and "permanent" wound channel stays viable. I shot jackalopes with my old Blackhawk 44 mag that have ran away with a hole in em you could see thru yet when shot with a .22 caliber rimfire aka the CCI stinger they look like a lawnmower ran over em........nasty !!

Who knows......I'm far from a ballistics expert yet just know that I can get more, fast hits on target with a handgun of Mr Brownings design. My favorite little .22 is a Beretta 70/71S. Very fast, very accurate and extreamly reliable. I suspect that is why the mossad chose that for wet work. As to the 115gr 9MM ...... I think a well designed , faster JHP stacked with some old steel core surplus will make a fine Kevlar and Kar puncher yet allow accurate and fast hits to the A zone ......:o)

One more Kewl tewl !...........Stay Safe PM !

[Blue Collar Christian]

Hey buddy, tried that hunnerd yard shot with my Ted Williams with the choke all the way tightened. You're right. It made a pattern that could very well have downed a pheasant. Now about that bridge...

[PoorMuttly]

Whew!

I thought I had gone nuts. It sure seemed right when I paced it out this morning. Pretty cool, huh ! Who'd ever think that a 20 could do that. I am now obsessed with Extra-Extra Full choke. Hope to get a double in Modified/XXF...I suppose choke tubes are the way to go. That Poly-Choke device is the tops, though. Marbles' just sold the company off...so I sure hope it'll remain the high quality item it has always been. I wonder if it could be fitted to a screw-in choke tube ? That'll be one of my next projects, I hope. Anyone with a single-barrel 20 should try it, obviously. I'll at least buy one in 12ga. They say it isn't for 3" 12 for some reason, which I will try to find out. Sure hope it can take it, because I am a big fan of the round now. Again...tubes work.

[river rat]

Any man with the courage, and a rock or a sharp stick - can arm himself by killing the first armed adversary he can ambush - and take his weapons..

Courage is the only implement or attribute that can't be bought or taken from the enemy..

Semper Fi

[Travis McGee]

For sure! I think that any serious player can "trade up" pretty quickly. Or as Squantos has told some of the security types at the salt mines where he is not allowed to carry, "Thanks for carrying my gun for me until I need it."

[Squantos]

Shhhhhhhhhh !!!............:o)

[Blue Collar Christian]

I've only hunted dove with this gun before, and with 7/8 oz 2 3/4" shells. It was pleasant to shoot then. These 1 1/4 oz 3" shells cause the stock to pop me in the cheek. I can't see myself running the rig that way to hunt. If the bird is 100 yards away from me, I'll let him slide before I'll have this little gun knocking me around all day.

P.S. I know you don't usually take that shot, but do you tolerate the recoil better than me, or is it possible that my stock geometry is getting the best of me? My shooting buddy has a Kentucky muzzle stuffer, that to me looks like a Pennsylvania rifle, in .50 cal that just plain knocks you in the face the way you have to put your face to the wood to use the sights. Same problem with this little Ted. No fun to shoot. His .58 Enfield and .58 Springfield are sweet.

[Euro-American Scum]

In gulags like Maryland or Kalifornica, don't expect any mercy if caught under arms, orange alert or no alert.

No question. If gun sales are banned and guns are confiscated, it would be a simple matter for the pols to do it under the authority of Homeland Security.

Imagine how such measures could be corrupted if and when Hillary gets in the White House.

[PoorMuttly]

Does your shotgun have short barrels ? That old Ithaca pump had a LONG barrel, and then this Poly-Choke BLOB of metal at the muzzle. It helped.

You probably also have that great, snap-shooting straight "English" stock, with no pistol grip to hang on to, if I recall that model correctly, which is doubtful.

Oh well, I agree it is best to let those shots pass, and stay with your usual loads. Going to the next larger shot size helps a lot though, and you may want to try it. I was grandstanding when I made my theatrical shot, but I knew it could do it. I don't recommend it however, unless you're really hungry, or the bird is a threat ! Good to know it is possible with the equipment, though, which was my point. If there is a chance you may grab your 20 in a bug-out, please (sparingly, not wanting to loosen up the gun) try heavier loads a little too...MAGNUM buckshot and slugs, and keep them in your kit. They are serious defenders. Do you remember Miami Vice ? The black detective sometimes carried a pistol-gripped, short-barrel Ithaca 20 ga. under his Armani sportcoat. 20ga. is real. Very handy. Shotguns are often overlooked by regular folks, who go right to pistols...but there is a reason the NFA outlawed them. They proved their dominance in the Roaring Twenties, and if, may God prevent it, there were a real social breakdown here...and I mean serious, beyond comprehension...the guys with the double shotguns and hacksaw blades will have the finest defense handguns in the world, and probably frequent access to enough ammunition, since high-capacity pistol magazines fall to a single shotgun blast, properly placed. May those days NEVER come.

[PoorMuttly]

Ah....you hunt Dove. The 3" 20ga. is favored by dove hunters, often over the standard 12, because the shot-string is longer, helping with proper lead. You paint a longer swath with shot, and as you know, doves are erratic. This is another advantage of the 3" 12 in waterfowling...and now I'd expect so with the 3 1/2".

I don't like recoil at all...I just learned to hold on tight, and ignore it, by forcing the gun to do what I want, and pushing it right back...dominating it. Only when you get up into the big-bore rifles is this a bad idea, and then you're better-off letting them go where they want to. I now like heavy, long-barreled guns. They are much more pleasant, and effective to shoot...and follow-through with. If you get there...with age "may" come wisdom. After years of armchair speculating about the advantages of small, light guns...and suffering through using them a LOT....I faced and accepted what works...even if it looks clumsy or ungainly.

[PoorMuttly]

Since Threadkiller Muttly seems to have inadvertantly chased everyone else off this wonderful thread, I have a serious question of my own, and you guys are all the cream of the crop of firearms experience around here....too many names to list....

What is the reputation/utility of the .30 Luger ?

I have a coyote problem here, and would like to chamber .30s in a Hi-Power, for more, flatter reach than the 9mm. I had always heard it had a bad reputation as a manstopper. I did see a CZ and Tokarev 7.62x25 yeaterday..hmmmmmm...but want to stay with my present equipment, perhaps only changing the slide assembly. I also realize that proper bullets are hard to find, but am willing to swage down Oregon Trail hardcast lead, if and when I learn how to, if necessary. Is it worth doing ?

...Muttly want an FN P-90, actually.....but it may be a little difficult to conceal..."may".....willing to try...

[Squantos]

http://owlnet.com/quality/223%20Timbs.htm

Don't know enough good or bad to make a comment on the 30 luger. A CZ52 is a great joy for plinking. Also look at the 9x21 that dillon spewed on us a few years back. Very powerful. One other possibility is a 40 S&W HighPower with an aftermarket Jarvis Barrel in 357SIG for that bottleneck yote pill.

My favorite coyote tewl bar none is a Thompson Contender with a 16" bull barrel in 223 with the Burris 2-12X LER, pachmeyer furniture and the harris bipod. When laid across the hood of my truck hits at 600 or better are common.

Stay Safe Muttly......

[PoorMuttly]

A sabot would be great...but I think your suggestion of the .40 in .357 Sig is "IT." So be it.

That was quick...wasn't it.

I only hope I can get a 9mm conversion for the .40, which you guys have advised me is a MUCH stronger gun than my present HPs. Probably impossible, because of the magazine...so I'm back to the .357 revolver once again. Fine !

Ain't gun speculations great? Beats chasing your tail all the time....at least you ocassionally catch it !

[Southack]

#167 is 4u

[Squantos]

Any day spent jawin about calibers and better or best fireamrs is a good day Muttly. Call me "everytime".......:o)

One of my favorite glocks in the 35 that is 40 S&W. I bought a 357SIG barrel for it and the advantage arms 22 rimfire conversion.

One frame, 2 slides, 2 magazine sizes and 3 calibers in one . I make sure it travels with me in my gun case. MMC adjustable sights make it quiet a plinking tewl.........:o)

Stay Safe !!!

[PoorMuttly]

I really favor interchangeability. That's why I was/am hoping to get more out of what I already have, and use. Again, I seem to gravitate around the .357. I have a 4 5/8" SAA, and I guess that's it. Sure do like the 686 or 586...but I notice they don't make it in 3 1/2"...everything but. S&W is annoying. Patton used a 3 1/2", Kieth wanted a 5", which they didn't make for him, one wonders why. So for now, and upcoming, the HP backs the .357 SAA and Mini-14, and 12 ga. with 4 Buck. Done deal. It's what I presently have that fits the need here ('06 and 8mm a little stiff for 'yotes, everything smaller is useless, unless I start playing cards with the predators...and they cheat !)...until I get a new hand for the ol' .44 Mag SAA 6". Oh well...I guess I'm armed !