Posted on 12/28/2024 6:39:57 PM PST by conservative98
There’s a raging debate on X right now about H1B visas and Vivek Ramaswamy is getting slammed for suggesting American culture is bad and thus can’t product high level talent that top tech companies want.
Let’s start back from the beginning:
THE HILL – Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy, co-chairs of President-elect Trump’s new “Department of Government Efficiency,” are defending the tech industry’s reliance on foreign-born engineers as the incoming Trump administration prepares to crack down on immigration.
Musk and Ramaswamy both pointed to a lack of engineers stateside.
“The number of people who are super talented engineers AND super motivated in the USA is far too low,” Musk wrote in a Wednesday post on his social platform X.
When another user suggested the Tesla and SpaceX CEO was denying opportunities to Americans, Musk argued that the poster’s understanding of the situation was “upside-down and backwards.”
“OF COURSE my companies and I would prefer to hire Americans and we DO, as that is MUCH easier than going through the incredibly painful and slow work visa process,” the tech billionaire said. “HOWEVER, there is a dire shortage of extremely talented and motivated engineers in America.”
This is where Ramaswamy steps into it, blaming tv shows that promote ‘mediocrity’ on a culture that can’t product top talent:
The reason top tech companies often hire foreign-born & first-generation engineers over “native” Americans isn’t because of an innate American IQ deficit (a lazy & wrong explanation). A key part of it comes down to the c-word: culture. Tough questions demand tough answers & if we’re really serious about fixing the problem, we have to confront the TRUTH:
Our American culture has venerated mediocrity over excellence for way too long (at least since the 90s and likely longer). That doesn’t start in college, it starts YOUNG.
A culture that celebrates the prom queen over the math olympiad champ, or the jock over the valedictorian, will not produce the best engineers.
A culture that venerates Cory from “Boy Meets World,” or Zach & Slater over Screech in “Saved by the Bell,” or ‘Stefan’ over Steve Urkel in “Family Matters,” will not produce the best engineers.
(Fact: I know *multiple* sets of immigrant parents in the 90s who actively limited how much their kids could watch those TV shows precisely because they promoted mediocrity…and their kids went on to become wildly successful STEM graduates).
More movies like Whiplash, fewer reruns of “Friends.” More math tutoring, fewer sleepovers. More weekend science competitions, fewer Saturday morning cartoons. More books, less TV. More creating, less “chillin.” More extracurriculars, less “hanging out at the mall.”
Most normal American parents look skeptically at “those kinds of parents.” More normal American kids view such “those kinds of kids” with scorn. If you grow up aspiring to normalcy, normalcy is what you will achieve.
Now close your eyes & visualize which families you knew in the 90s (or even now) who raise their kids according to one model versus the other. Be brutally honest.
“Normalcy” doesn’t cut it in a hyper-competitive global market for technical talent. And if we pretend like it does, we’ll have our asses handed to us by China.
This can be our Sputnik moment. We’ve awaken from slumber before & we can do it again. Trump’s election hopefully marks the beginning of a new golden era in America, but only if our culture fully wakes up. A culture that once again prioritizes achievement over normalcy; excellence over mediocrity; nerdiness over conformity; hard work over laziness.
That’s the work we have cut out for us, rather than wallowing in victimhood & just wishing (or legislating) alternative hiring practices into existence. I’m confident we can do it.
This didn’t go over well with everyone…
Even Nikki Haley chimed in, saying there is nothing wrong with American culture…
The press secretary for DeSantis also suggested the problem isn’t American culture, but mass immigration and quoted Governor DeSantis:
Vivek isn’t wrong that we have a problem with American culture but it’s not what he suggests. It isn’t TV shows and movies that produce mediocrity. No, this has a lot to do with the breakdown of the family, with the inability or unwillingness of parents to push their children to excel academically instead of endlessly playing video games or sitting in front of a TV. Also many of our schools have big problems producing excellence as well. But I think it all starts with the breakdown of the family, ie. fatherless children and single mothers working multiple jobs to make ends meet while their children are at home doing whatever they want. And this is a product of the Godless left.
But that being said, I don’t know how much that really plays into this problem of top-level talent. It may have some effect, but I also agree with fact that mass immigration is a big culprit, in that it provides the cheap labor that companies want. This is a battle we’ve been fighting for decades, not just against the left, but against the Chamber of Commerce types in the Republican party for decades who want the left’s version of immigration so they can reap the benefits of cheap labor.
Look, I have never disagreed with merit-based immigration, especially when it comes to top level talent. We want the best and the brightest no matter where they are from as long as they are willing to assimilate. But we want it on our terms.
Let me quote the Great Mark Levin from over a decade ago:
"And what do we the people want? We want our border secured. And let me go even further. Let me make it absolutely clear to every foreigner outside this country.
This country belongs to us; it doesn’t belong to you. It doesn’t belong to the 7 billion other people all over the world.
You see the way it’s supposed to work is we decide who gets to come here. We decide the standards. We decide the requirements. We want to know who you are. We want to know what you’re going to – (ready for this one?) – contribute to this society, not take from this society.
You see because I want to make it very very clear to the left, to the media and even some ‘Repubicans’ and even some TV and radio hosts.
There’s nothing compassionate about the downfall of America! There’s nothing compassionate about the hollowing out of our society! There’s nothing compassionate about bankrupting our children and grandchildren, destroying our school system, destroying local law enforcement and hospitals, what’s been built up over 200 years.
It’s one thing to export our viewpoints, our economic ideas, our governing ideas. But it’s quite another to import the views, the culture and the destitution of the third world. Because that is national suicide. And any thinking person who is not playing politics, who’s not a demagogue, who’s not a propagandist, any thinking person regardless of party, ethnicity, or anything else knows I’m right!
This isn’t about voting as far as I’m concerned. This isn’t about pandering to this group or that group as far as I’m concerned. This is about preserving what’s left of this Republic."
Vivek isn’t wrong that we have a problem with American culture but it’s not what he suggests. It isn’t TV shows and movies that produce mediocrity. No, this has a lot to do with the breakdown of the family, with the inability or unwillingness of parents to push their children to excel academically instead of endlessly playing video games or sitting in front of a TV. Also many of our schools have big problems producing excellence as well. But I think it all starts with the breakdown of the family, ie. fatherless children and single mothers working multiple jobs to make ends meet while their children are at home doing whatever they want. And this is a product of the Godless left.
In Florida DeSantis had to fight Disney to keep sexual weirdo 'education out of grades K - third. It was what liberal idiots called the 'don't say gay Bill'. DeSantis won and Florida's keeping porn out of our schools. He's right about fatherless homes and all the other crap but a large part of the problem is our education system sucks. We spend more than any other first world country on educationg our kids and we're near the bottom of first world countries in results. Something's got to change.
Thank you! We can at least agree on something.
Your examples do not fulfill H-1B requirements. The H-1B program requires:
Possession of an advanced educational degree such as:
A 4 four year Bachelor’s Degree (or equivalent degrees)
A Master’s or Doctoral Degree
Advanced training or vocational skills (examples include fashion models)
Qualify to work in research and development projects of the US Department of Defense or other government positions.
Examples of job positions might be:
IT specialists.
Architects.
Accountants.
Professors.
Doctors.
Lawyers, etc.
Go watch Ticker Guy (Karl Denninger, IQ of 187, successful entrepreneur) on this.The BS Of H-1 Abuse *
Here, maybe you missed this one, on the other end of the "gifted and talented" scale.
So we apparently need visa workers to teach Americans ENGLISH.
What a joke.
But sure, H1B is about the “best and brightest!” pic.twitter.com/7VAjSa1pX4— Chief Trumpster (@ChiefTrumpster) December 28, 2024
The number of foreign workers in sensitive industries is very concerning. The Chinese have a history of embedding to gain proprietary information and to sabotage. This is especially true in the tech fields.
Allowing fronts for the Chinese government to own large swathes of farmland, especially farmland near our military bases, is criminal negligence on the part of the American government. Trump has that issue in his sights and hopefully the similar issue of embedded foreign workers in sensitive areas is similarly in mind. Your suggestion is very pertinent.
Von Braun had the vision, and was a great salesman, not unlike Musk. But both had/have access to the best talent in the US.
So sorry
“Yeah, that is what the propaganda of the era claims. He was a celebrity chef with a few ideas. But his main value was cold war propaganda.”
So say you and no one else with any actual knowledge of history. The NAZI’s didn’t make the man at such a young age their go-to guy for no reason. And, America didn’t highly value the man because he was a Celebrity Chef. Good God man. Get a Life!
As well you should. The "top universities" in India are a joke. They're diploma mills and nothing more than that.
Indian doctors: that is a great example of a very smart person who is really bad at actually being a doctor and caring for a patient. My neurologist, a little guy from India, walks around me muttering, never talks to me but talks at me. I have absolutely no idea what is wrong with me because he never actually tells me. It’s like 15-minute speed dating and then he moves on. Smart doesn’t equate to good.
Look at what colleges are producing nowadays not kids who can achieve greatness but instead lil activists who are woke, praise Hamas and hate Jews so yeah in this respect Vivek is right
American culture is bad, but that doesn’t prevent it from producing great scientists and engineers. It’s not hard to encourage more if we really want to. Also, if we compare popular culture, are India and China better than the US? Parents, schools and the state in those countries demand that young people work hard, but are the movies that they make and the movies that young people there like really much better than the ones made here?
What is “required” is not the state of affairs. As I noted the HB1 database is searchable & being search.
I post one such link
https://x.com/Scotchjake/status/1872865764291822018
Truck drivers
https://x.com/realtimsharp/status/1872951166835077277
Here is the federal database for incoming & requested H-1B workers.
Browse for your own location
For your favorite companies
For your careers - ie pharmacist, fashion designer - via the ‘Industry Code.
https://uscis.gov/tools/reports-and-studies/h-1b-employer-data-hub
I can agree with one thing and one only, this nation’s shallow society celebrates mediocrity and the superfluous at every turn. Sports, entertainment, Hollyweird, pop culture icons and more silliness are elevated far out of rational reason. Whole blocks of our news and culture give way to people and things that are simply meaningless drivel. Our children have been influenced to admire and emulate figures that can’t assemble a cogent sentence, are slovenly and ill groomed and without sports or something else would hardly rate as a big muscled, weak minded common laborer which we need fewer and fewer of each day. As an example I give you the stars of Friday night lights and the local newspaper sports section where the highest point of the lives of many is reported. Hardly even passing notice is given to intellectual success. In large part we are now a nation of dolts who appear to revel and wallow in mass ignorance and even far less than mediocre. Merit and celebration of the extrodinary, the gifted and the dogged determination of those who will not give in and will not be defeated have given way to misplaced emotion and the need for succor by the losers and the lazy and the unfortunate. We have violated the natural law of survival of the fittest and have become weak because of it. The H1b is not the solution either. The ghetto thug and the redneck rube must become ashamed and made to become extinct. Nobody equal to or behind anyone else has ever motivated them to do more than they thought possible.
“As well you should. The ‘top universities’ in India are a joke. They’re diploma mills and nothing more than that.”
Which show that the US can and does still produce top talent, whether US citizens or foreign. Which is in opposition to Vivek’s arguments.
You again!
Disagree. Getting a graduate engineering degree (which I did) taught me how to do research, how to think, and be curious about how the world works.
There are plenty of math and OR majors where I work that aren’t worth a warm bucket of spit. Incurious people besides.
His horrible patient interaction is due to his ethnicity?
He could just be a weird person.
Ever met a weird white doctor?
They may be in business, but they are failing. Computer updates that freeze, planes that fall out of the sky because of foreign code programming. Car map updates that send people into lakes. The list is long.
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