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The Decline And Fall Of The American Empire: Although America is not an Empire, Still, There are some similarities between the U.S. and Rome.
International Man ^ | 09/24/2022 | Doug Casey

Posted on 09/24/2022 4:50:26 PM PDT by SeekAndFind

As some of you know, I’m an aficionado of ancient history. I thought it might be worthwhile to discuss what happened to Rome and based on that, what’s likely to happen to the U.S. Spoiler alert: There are some similarities between the U.S. and Rome.

But before continuing, please seat yourself comfortably. This article will necessarily cover exactly those things you’re never supposed to talk about—religion and politics—and do what you’re never supposed to do, namely, bad-mouth the military.

There are good reasons for looking to Rome rather than any other civilization when trying to see where the U.S. is headed. Everyone knows Rome declined, but few people understand why. And, I think, even fewer realize that the U.S. is now well along the same path for pretty much the same reasons, which I’ll explore shortly.

Rome reached its peak of military power around the year 107, when Trajan completed the conquest of Dacia (the territory of modern Romania). With Dacia, the empire peaked in size, but I’d argue it was already past its peak by almost every other measure.

The U.S. reached its peak relative to the world, and in some ways its absolute peak, as early as the 1950s. In 1950 this country produced 50% of the world’s GNP and 80% of its vehicles. Now it’s about 21% of world GNP and 5% of its vehicles. It owned two-thirds of the world’s gold reserves; now it holds one-fourth. It was, by a huge margin, the world’s biggest creditor, whereas now it’s the biggest debtor by a huge margin. The income of the average American was by far the highest in the world; today it ranks about eighth, and it’s slipping.

But it’s not just the U.S.—it’s Western civilization that’s in decline. In 1910 Europe controlled almost the whole world—politically, financially, and militarily. Now it’s becoming a Disneyland with real buildings and a petting zoo for the Chinese. It’s even further down the slippery slope than the U.S.

Like America, Rome was founded by refugees—from Troy, at least in myth. Like America, it was ruled by kings in its early history. Later, Romans became self-governing, with several Assemblies and a Senate. Later still, power devolved to the executive, which was likely not an accident.

U.S. founders modeled the country on Rome, all the way down to the architecture of government buildings, the use of the eagle as the national bird, the use of Latin mottos, and the unfortunate use of the fasces—the axe surrounded by rods—as a symbol of state power. Publius, the pseudonymous author of The Federalist Papers, took his name from one of Rome’s first consuls. As it was in Rome, military prowess is at the center of the national identity of the U.S. When you adopt a model in earnest, you grow to resemble it.

A considerable cottage industry has developed comparing ancient and modern times since Edward Gibbon published The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire in 1776—the same year as Adam Smith’s Wealth of Nations and the U.S. Declaration of Independence were written. I’m a big fan of all three, but D&F is not only a great history, it’s very elegant and readable literature. And it’s actually a laugh riot; Gibbon had a subtle wit.

There have been huge advances in our understanding of Rome since Gibbon’s time, driven by archeological discoveries. There were many things he just didn’t know, because he was as much a philologist as an historian, and he based his writing on what the ancients said about themselves.

There was no real science of archeology when Gibbon wrote; little had been done even to correlate the surviving ancient texts with what was on the surviving monuments—even the well-known monuments—and on the coins. Not to mention scientists digging around in the provinces for what was left of Roman villas, battle sites, and that sort of thing. So Gibbon, like most historians, was to a degree a collector of hearsay.

And how could he know whom to believe among the ancient sources? It’s as though William F. Buckley, Gore Vidal, H. L. Mencken, Norman Mailer, and George Carlin all wrote about the same event, and you were left to figure out whose story was true. That would make it tough to tell what really happened just a few years ago… forget about ancient history. That’s why the study of history is so tendentious; so much of it is “he said/she said.”

In any event, perhaps you don’t want a lecture on ancient history. You’d probably be more entertained by some guesses about what’s likely to happen to the U.S. I’ve got some.

Let me start by saying that I’m not sure the collapse of Rome wasn’t a good thing. There were many positive aspects to Rome—as there are to most civilizations. But there was much else to Rome of which I disapprove, such as its anti-commercialism, its militarism and, post-Caesar, its centralized and increasingly totalitarian government. In that light, it’s worth considering whether the collapse of the U.S. might not be a good thing.

So why did Rome fall? In 1985, a German named Demandt assembled 210 reasons. I find some of them silly—like racial degeneration, homosexuality, and excessive freedom. Most are redundant. Some are just common sense—like bankruptcy, loss of moral fiber, and corruption.Read more here...



TOPICS: History; Military/Veterans; Society
KEYWORDS: america; bidenvoters; bloggertrash; decline; declinevianeocons; fall; ntsa; rome; whyishenotbanned; whyishestillhere
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To: SeekAndFind
My guess is that a general will run for office in the next election, when we’ll be in a genuine crisis. The public will want a general partly because the military is now by far the most trusted institution of U.S. society. His likely election will be a mistake for numerous reasons, not least that the military is really just a heavily armed variant of the postal service.

I think Casey describes Postmaster General Lloyd Austin perfectly. :)

21 posted on 09/24/2022 5:48:37 PM PDT by Mr. Jeeves ([CTRL]-[GALT]-[DELETE])
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To: SeekAndFind

I submit that America did become an empire of markets, and fought wars to protect those markets. If America has declined in the aspect of empire, it has been in its ability to dominate world markets. There are many reasons. However, I place our consumerism at the top of the list.


22 posted on 09/24/2022 5:51:00 PM PDT by PerConPat (A politician is an animal which can sit on a fence and yet keep both ears to the ground. - Mencken)
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To: BobL
The Neocons certainly gave it their best...but Russia, India, China, and many other countries simply don’t want to answer to them.

The Neocons said we had reached "the end of history." The entire world wanted democratic capitalism. Every Muslim, every Chinese, every African, was a Jeffersonian liberal at heart who yearned for McDonald's and Netflix.

Or maybe that was just propaganda. Perhaps the Neocons knew they were squandering America's blood and treasure in the Mideast. But like Satan, they knew their time was limited, so they wanted to push as far as they could before the money ran out.

23 posted on 09/24/2022 6:02:03 PM PDT by Angelino97
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To: Angelino97

“The Neocons said we had reached “the end of history.”

Don’t mention that crap, please. It sickened me when the ‘legendary’ book came out, and it sickens me more today.

But I do think they are now trying to ‘end history’, by getting a nuclear war started with Russia, or China.


24 posted on 09/24/2022 6:05:37 PM PDT by BobL (By the way, low tonight in Latvia: 43 degrees)
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To: SeekAndFind

More similarities with Britain. A century ago, they were at the point we are now. They succumbed to guilt and a feeling that their rule was illegitimate. Also, they got into too many wars and borrowed too much money. They also thought that they could let their industry slide and remain the world’s banker. The difference is that they fell because their power that came from governing other people — the Irish, the Indians, the Africans — came to be seen as illegitimate. With us, our ability to govern our own country is in question and seen as illegitimate.


25 posted on 09/24/2022 6:13:03 PM PDT by x
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To: imabadboy99

“It ended with passage of the 1965 immigration act. Accelerated by open borders.”

That was the first blow.
The second came in 1972 when Nixon opened China. Jobs disappeared to China and our money allowed their economy to flourish.


26 posted on 09/24/2022 6:17:52 PM PDT by oldvirginian (When I was a kid I wanted to be older…this is not what I expected)
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To: SeekAndFind; All

I cannot find any analogous historical set of circumstances to the contemporary moment. The political class of the US is waging war on the elements that traditionally have provided the stable basis for productivity and internal stability. Simultaneously, US military and political power is spreading accross the globe in an unprecedented fashion. The U-NATO_EU block is penetrating deeply into the European ‘other’zone, the East. In the Pacific and Indian Ocean area the US and its Pacific ally block are preparing for either a armed truce or a regional war with mainland China. While this going on the Axis of the Others, Russia-Iran-China grows closer together to oppose the US-globalizing empire. The potential for Cold War 2 to become a global hot war is obvious. Apparently the US military and intel establishment believes the US will maintain an absolute technological lead over this new axis and both the US population and the world can be kept under control. This is is a new global chess board and unlike anything in the past.


27 posted on 09/24/2022 6:26:17 PM PDT by robowombat (As am I, but it isnot any of my business that the people of GOrth,He looks like the sex all y one )
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To: SeekAndFind

Yea Biden is Nero ..........


28 posted on 09/24/2022 6:30:46 PM PDT by njslim
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To: blueunicorn6

There are many, many differences between The Roman Empire and The United States.

What has not changed is the behavior of humans.

The same emotions are present,


There is your answer. Corruption. Corruption led to the downfall of Rome and it is destroying America. There is no way we can survive unless we get rid of the corruption.

Of course communism is a threat, but there is now way communism could take over America without the corruption. Corruption is a weapon.

Which brings me to a slight thread creep.

Why is it that the corrupt CIA, DOJ, FBI, Bidens, Pelosi’s and the many others, fail to see that when the country finally becomes a communist country that they will be the first to be executed. It will be aan immediate bloodbath just as Cambodia.

Why? Because the new rulers understand that the people who will stab us in the back will stab them in the back and that is why they nust be eliminated.


29 posted on 09/24/2022 6:40:05 PM PDT by old curmudgeon
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To: Larry Lucido

👍🙂


30 posted on 09/24/2022 6:58:58 PM PDT by MotorCityBuck ( Keep the change, you filthy animal! )
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To: SeekAndFind

Rome was composed of contiguous territories that were conquered and incorporated.

The US is more of an economic empire along the lines of Athens before the Peloponnesian War. Amazing parallels between the sheer arrogance of Athens, and our Post WWII insistence on having a finger in every pie.


31 posted on 09/24/2022 6:59:42 PM PDT by bakeneko
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To: DIRTYSECRET

“When I attend an NFL game and feel the electricity inside the stadium...”

I do not attend, nor do I every watch football. I despise the NFL because many of the players, management and fans hate America. Hate her. I suspect you are not feeling electricity, but idolatry and idiocy.

Respectfully submitted


32 posted on 09/24/2022 7:09:09 PM PDT by KingLudd
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To: SeekAndFind

Anyone calls us an empire is skewed


33 posted on 09/24/2022 7:14:28 PM PDT by wardaddy (Sound and Fury Republic)
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To: SeekAndFind
It's not an empire, it's a marketplace for globalists to sell the future of citizens.

The unconstitutional income tax, taking the dollar off of the gold standard, and illegal immigration, enabled the globalists to undercut the Constitution.

34 posted on 09/24/2022 8:34:55 PM PDT by T.B. Yoits
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To: njslim

RE: Yea Biden is Nero...

How good is he on the fiddle? And has anyone ever heard him sing?


35 posted on 09/24/2022 8:52:19 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: Jim Noble

Exactly.


36 posted on 09/24/2022 9:35:53 PM PDT by AndyJackson
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To: SeekAndFind

Western civilization is committing active suicide. Morality has been removed from all public like and the demonic progressives have flooded their nations with third world s hole people who make s holes everywhere they go.


37 posted on 09/25/2022 12:02:07 AM PDT by Organic Panic (Democrats. Memories as short as Joe Biden's eyes.)
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To: SeekAndFind

.


38 posted on 09/25/2022 6:22:26 AM PDT by sauropod (Unbelief has nothing to say. Chance favors the prepared mind.)
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To: njslim

Nero convinced the Romans the Christians started the fire. We know how that went.


39 posted on 09/25/2022 6:27:34 AM PDT by griswold3 (There are no solutions; there are only trade-offs. – Thomas Sowell)
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To: BobL
...the ONLY QUESTION remaining is whether the Neocons can back away quietly...

That'll be hard for 'em to do ...

...or whether they need to go out with a nuclear war.

Where they'll be the first and only ones into the bomb shelters, before locking the doors.

40 posted on 09/25/2022 7:48:05 AM PDT by Navy Patriot (Celebrate Decivilization)
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