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The M1 Carbine and M1 Garand: Little Brother or No Relation?
nationalinterest.org ^ | Dec. 21, 2020 | Peter Suciu

Posted on 12/21/2020 9:55:23 AM PST by PROCON

Image: Wikimedia Commons

The “M1 Carbine” was instead the first carbine to be developed and thus while it does have similarities, these are in fact different weapons.

Here's What You Need to Remember: The confusion between the two weapons isn’t helped by the fact that both are designated as firing “.30 caliber.”

Despite its name and the fact that its basic appearance is similar to the M1 Garand, the M1 Carbine—officially the United States Carbine, Caliber .30, M1—wasn’t really a carbine version of the main battle rifle. The confusion lies in the fact that both were designated “M1” but that simply dates back to the U.S. Army naming system, which began on July 1, 1925. From that point, the "M" was simply the designation for “Model” while the number represented the sequential development of the equipment and weapons.

The “M1 Carbine” was instead the first carbine to be developed and thus while it does have similarities, these are in fact different weapons.

The M1 Garand—designed by Canadian-American John Garand at the Springfield Armory—features a gas-operated, rotating bolt system, a concept that has been commonly used with firearms chambered for high powered cartridges. The M1 Carbine also features a rotating bolt but it utilizes a short-stroke piston, which enables better control of the weapon due to the fact that less mass is needed to be stopped at either end of the bolt carrier travel.

The confusion between the two weapons isn’t helped by the fact that both are designated as firing “.30 caliber” but the distinction is that the M1 Carbine fires the .30 carbine (7.62x33mm) whereas the M1 Garand fires the .30-06 Springfield (7.62x63mm) round. In this regard the .30 caliber is similar to how the Soviets utilized various 7.62mm rounds—including the full-size 7.62x54mmR rifle round, 7.62x39mm intermediate cartridge (which was used in the SKS and AK-47) and the 7.62x25mm pistol/submachine gun round.

More importantly, the American .30 carbine cartridge, which was designed specifically for the M1 Carbine, is a light rifle round and shouldn't be seen as an intermediate round—notably those used with modern assault rifles. In fact, the rimless .30 Carbine was basically an improved design based on the much older .32 Winchester Self-Loading cartridge or 1906, which was introduced for the Winchester Model rifle. The .30 Carbine fired a lighter bullet but utilized modern power, so it was six hundred feet per second faster and 27 percent more powerful than its parent cartridge.

The straight case and rounded nose have also convinced some to believe it was designed for use in pistols, but this wasn’t actually the case. In fact, the M1 Carbine was developed as a weapon that offered greater firepower than the military pistols of the era but weigh lighter—and thus easier to carry—than the full-sized M1 Garand. It was clear to military planners that support troops including staff, mortarmen and radiomen; as well as officers and even some NCOs needed a more compact weapon.

The M1 Carbine also addressed the calls for a compact, lightweight defense weapon with a greater range, accuracy and firepower than a sidearm. The fact that the carbine weighed about half that of the Thompson submachine gun or M1 Garand, helped convince the military planners that this was the right weapon for the job.


TOPICS: Government; History; Military/Veterans
KEYWORDS: banglist; m1carbine; m1garand
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To: DIRTYSECRET
Why do you need a 30.-06 to kill someone when the 30-30 will do?

For the fun factor. Why do you ask?

21 posted on 12/21/2020 10:20:35 AM PST by Sirius Lee (They intend to murder us. Prep if you want to live and live like you are prepping for eternal life)
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To: Track9

[[[Its the guns I’ve sold i miss the most.]]]

There is a song in there some place.


22 posted on 12/21/2020 10:24:18 AM PST by headstamp 2 (Socialism- Institutionalized Deprivation)
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To: DIRTYSECRET
Why do you need a 30.-06 to kill someone

Range, accuracy, and lethality. The M-1 Garand was the apotheosis of infantry rifle. In many ways it was superior to the M-16. The Army Infantry Department did a survey after World War II and found that only 25% of infantrymen engaged in a firefight fired their weapons. They figured it would just draw fire on themselves. BAR men fired about 90% of the time. The psychological effect of automatic fire encouraged men to fire. (Also, the BAR would be used for covering fire when closing with the enemy.)

This was the thinking behind the M-16. It is an easy weapon to fire, with little recoil, and good accuracy and lethality. It also provides a high volume of fire, which is necessary for suppression fire.

23 posted on 12/21/2020 10:24:37 AM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets ("Women's intuition" gave us the Salem witch trials and Kavanaugh hearings. Change my mind.)
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To: PROCON

My grandad says the Japs found out real quick how effective the M1 carbine was - the Marines favored it over the M1 Garand.


24 posted on 12/21/2020 10:24:39 AM PST by SkyDancer
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To: Dutch Boy

Too bad you couldn’t have saved some hamburgers either.


25 posted on 12/21/2020 10:25:09 AM PST by alternatives? (If our borders are not secure, why fund an army?)
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To: PROCON

Funny how the same people who call the Carbine a weak weapon say quite different things about an even weaker .357 Magnum. Paul Harrell has a good video on the Carbine’s ammo performance and the false info about it on you tube.

The carbine was never intended as a main battle rifle. Simply an improvement over the .45 pistol, which was basically useless outside of a room or a trench. My only complaint is that reloaded ammo can be troublesome. It’s really best to only use factory ammo.


26 posted on 12/21/2020 10:25:13 AM PST by Seruzawa (TANSTAAFL!)
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To: jmacusa

There were times when US troops would expend 600 rounds per day through a Garand in WW2. My shoulder hurts just thinking of it.

One plus to the Garand is that you can just put new clips in it, 8 rounds at a time, as long as you want without having to stop to charge magazines.


27 posted on 12/21/2020 10:30:06 AM PST by Seruzawa (TANSTAAFL!)
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To: mylife

I agree. Yet I always wondered why they never developed a bottle shaped round similar to the 7.62x39 for the Carbine in 7.62x33.


28 posted on 12/21/2020 10:31:39 AM PST by Doc91678 (Doc91678)
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To: Lurkina.n.Learnin

A carbine was originally a shorter, lighter version of an infantry rifle originally used by cavalry or dragoons. For example, the Germans developed the KAR-98 which was about foot shorter than a Gewehr 98. Later it became standard issue for all troops.

Nowadays, a carbine seems to be a rifle shooting a pistol cartridge.

The M-1 Carbine is more like an assault rifle, a lighter weapon shooting an intermediate cartridge. However, since it lacks selective fire (and a ‘scary looking’ stock) it is not an assault rifle. The M-2 Carbine has selective fire and might be considered an assault rifle, but again, it lacks the fancy stock - unless you get the paratrooper version!

There are pistols chambered for .30 carbine, notably a Ruger Blackhawk.


29 posted on 12/21/2020 10:32:14 AM PST by Little Ray (The Left and Right no longer have anything in common. A House divided against itself cannot stand.)
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To: mylife
"But you really dont want to shoot that cartridge in a pistol."

Why not? I love my 30 carbine Ruger Blackhawk revolver, and I'd love to have one of the old AMT Automag III semi auto .30 carbine pistols. They are 100+ yard handguns.

Some people DO complain that they are too loud, but that doesn't bother me, and my reloads are much quieter than factory mil spec ammo, with the same performance.

30 posted on 12/21/2020 10:33:23 AM PST by LegendHasIt
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To: PROCON

“The confusion between the two weapons..”

Who the hell has ever been confused between the two?


31 posted on 12/21/2020 10:33:26 AM PST by Bonemaker (invictus maneo)
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To: jmacusa

Because you want to be able to put their d**ks in the dirt and not have them get up.
General George Patton said the M 1 Garand was ‘’The finest battle implement ever made’’. I fired one once. Good God what a cannon! And what a kick. Even with a padded shooting jacket my right shoulder hurt for two days.
___________________________________________________________
I am well acquainted with both the German Mauser and the M1 Garand and much prefer the Garand. The Mauser is lighter and has a tremendous kick but the Garand while heavier has a lighter punch and being semi auto you can put 8 rounds downrange in a tight grouping because you never lose the sight picture. I could fire the Garand all day long, loved it.


32 posted on 12/21/2020 10:44:58 AM PST by joegoeny ("Nuts!")
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To: LegendHasIt

I has a kick, but so does the .357 magnum


33 posted on 12/21/2020 10:48:19 AM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: joegoeny

8mm Mauser will set you on your ass.


34 posted on 12/21/2020 10:49:45 AM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: BenLurkin

Malcolm has the Nation of Islam literally gunning for him constantly until they finally got their hit. FBI-informant Calypso Louie was likely involved.


35 posted on 12/21/2020 10:50:04 AM PST by Clemenza
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To: PROCON

Bugsy Siegle was shot through the eye with an M1-Carbine while he was sitting on his couch reading the Los Angeles Times.


36 posted on 12/21/2020 10:50:29 AM PST by forgotten man
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To: forgotten man

bttt


37 posted on 12/21/2020 10:51:14 AM PST by BenLurkin (The above is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion, or satire. Or both.)
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To: DIRTYSECRET

I think the idea now is it is better to wound someone than kill them. There are more bullets per pound with a smaller round. The wounded put more drain on both immediate and future resources. That is also true today. Think about disability and healthcare benefits.


38 posted on 12/21/2020 10:51:49 AM PST by alternatives? (If our borders are not secure, why fund an army?)
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To: PROCON

An M1 Carbine story: Back in the 1980s my parents
traveled from NorCal to Anaheim to attend an 11th
Airborne Div Association reunion. My dad was an
original 11th AB “Angel”. My sister lived in Burbank
at the time and visited my folks at the reunion hotel.
Sis and mom were enjoying a conversation with other
wives in the lobby when a message came over the PA
system regarding the purchase of raffle tickets. The
prize was a commemorative M1 carbine manufactured by
Iver Johnson which, BTW, had NOT produced that model
for WWII. Anyway, my mom and the other wives found
humor in the prospect that one of the elderly
paratrooper “boys” could be lurking around the hotel
with a WWII firearm. As it turned out the winner of
the carbine was my dad. The joke was on my mom.
I inherited the gold trimmed carbine from my dad
and it still has never been fired.


39 posted on 12/21/2020 10:54:15 AM PST by Sivad (Socialism: Vote your way in, shoot your way out.)
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To: Lurkina.n.Learnin

Define carbine please.
___________________________________________________________
The M1 Carbine fired a bullet type round with a blunt nose.
The firearm itself resembles its big brother in that it also uses a rotating bolt. It is magazine fed from a separate clip which inserts underneath. Back to the bullet, it is smaller then the Garand’s 30.06 round with much less propellant. The range I believe is about 200 yards while the Garand is at least 5 times that. The carbine fit a niche between 45 pistols and the Garand was cheap and easy to use with easy reloads. You could say it was a plinker. I am also well acquainted with it and the closest modern firearm would be the mini-14 but again a bullet round not the .223.


40 posted on 12/21/2020 10:54:43 AM PST by joegoeny ("Nuts!")
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