Pro-gay activist ‘reinterpreted’ anti-homosexuality Bible verses in LGBT-‘affirming’ Harvard speech

The Blaze ^ | 18th April 2018 | Dave Urbanski

[Ennis85]

“Queer rights activist” and “biblical scholar” Matthew Vines “reinterpreted” Scripture verses that typically condemn homosexuality in an LGBT-“affirming” reading of the Bible at Harvard University, the Crimson reported.

Who is Vines?

Vines is a prominent speaker on pro-gay topics in the context of Christianity and authored “God and the Gay Christian: The Biblical Case in Support of Same-Sex Relationships.” The book’s controversial content resulted in WaterBrook Multnomah — which shared staff with the book’s publisher Convergent — resigning its membership with the National Religious Broadcasters in 2014.

What did he say at his Harvard talk?

During his talk Saturday, Vines “discussed six Bible verses that some religious leaders assert condemn homosexuality; he reinterpreted the verses through the lenses of more ‘affirming’ readings that place the lines in cultural and temporal contexts,” the Crimson reported. The paper didn’t say what verses Vines discussed.

In addition, Vines “argued that long-term, monogamous homosexual relationships were not a well-known cultural phenomenon until recently, and that, therefore, no Bible verse responds directly to these relationships,” the Crimson added.

Vines also responded point by point to a talk an “ex-gay” speaker and critic of homosexuality gave at a Harvard College Faith in Action meeting in February, the paper said, which occurred just prior to administrators placing the Christian student group on probation allegedly for pressuring a female leader to resign after she began dating another female.

Vines said Jackie Hill-Perry’s talk in front of Harvard College Faith in Action was one of his motivations for coming to speak, the Crimson said.

“This type of message has done unfathomable harm and destruction to LGBTQ people around the world — broken so many relationships, broken so many lives,” Vines told the crowd, the paper reported.

Vines — a Harvard student himself before leaving as a sophomore in 2010 — also discussed his experiences as a member of conservative Christian student groups at the school, the Crimson said.

“Despite some of the tensions and challenges that I had with those groups, it really was the best community that I found in my first year here,” Vines said, according to the paper. “I actually felt like I was able to get to know people and be seen and not be completely invisible.”

How did one student react?

Student Aidan L. Stoddart helped organize Vines’ talk and said his detailed reading of Scripture “creates a bridge” between Christians of differing stripes, the Crimson noted.

“I think Matthew’s a really important figure because he has a critical and mature and very deeply life-giving relationship with Scripture that is centered on love,” Stoddart added to the paper. “Because it’s based on a love of Scripture that we all share.”

[Jim W N]

Salvation initially and perpetually is either by grace or by the works of the law. It cannot be by both. The two are mutually exclusive.

"I marvel that you are so soon turned away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel...Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh [works of the law]"? Gal 1:6;3:1-3.

"Now this I say lest anyone should deceive you with persuasive words...As you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him." Col 2:4,6.

"And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work." Rom 11:6.

Again, salvation initially and perpetually is either by grace or by the works of the law. It cannot be by both. The two are mutually exclusive.

Now a reminder of a warning.

"You are turned away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel...but even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed." Gal 1:6;8-9.

A double curse is pronounced by God in Galatians through Paul to anyone who brings another "gospel" (there is only ONE true gospel) of salvation by works rather than by grace.

So what about Hebrews 10:26-27? Well, to rightly divide the word of truth, we must understand who scripture is addressing. In this case, the author (probably Paul) is talking to the Jews who were the first recipients of the oracles of God and witnessed and experienced the blood of sacrifice and the Holy Spirit for 1500 years. If they reject Christ whose sacrifice took away all their sins, then "there is no more sacrifice" for their sin of rejecting Christ.

What about the Book of James and works with faith? James is talking about "show me" and "I'll show you". He's not talking contrary to the gospel of grace but about effective faith that others can see. But others don't decide one's salvation. Believing in Christ is the ONLY standard of salvation. Effective Christianity is not a condition for salvation, but for victorious Christianity.

There are many defeated Christians. They belong to Jesus who promised NEVER to leave them but they have failed to avail themselves of the "abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness" by which they may "reign in life" (Rom 5:17).

As far as worldliness goes, the world (and a significant number of Christians) knows nothing about grace. You ask the average guy on the street if he's going to Heaven and he'll say, "Yes, I've been good." But to a confidant he'll say, "I feel guilty, I just committed adultery." The world knows all about the ten commandments. The ten commandments makes sense to the fleshly mind. So your doctrine of salvation by works is very worldly.

But salvation by grace is contrary to the carnal mind and the pride of performance because there is none - Jesus did it all. That pisses off the self-righteous Pharisees of the past and of the present. It takes God's Spirit to reveal the grace of Christ to a person.

This may be it for me with you. I'm pretty sure you are among those who are pissed off by the gospel of grace because it excludes your performance. Self righteousness and self effort are excluded from grace. You may also be pissed because the gospel of the grace of Christ is contrary to a lot of the traditional doctrines taught today by the religious establishment who as in Jesus day, "teach for doctrines the commandments of men" (Matt 15:9), because the gospel clearly says "you are NOT under the law, but under grace" (Rom 6:14).

Good luck.

[Jim W N]

There comes a point when a person has exhausted God’s grace.

Nowhere does scripture teach that. That's what your carnal mind teaches you. Scripture teaches that GOD exhausted ALL of his wrath, condemnation, and judgement on the body of his beloved son for ALL of the sins of the WHOLE world past, present, and future.

You dishonor the perfect and complete work of Christ on the cross - "ONCE FOR ALL" (Heb 10:10).

[nonsporting]

The Book of James is a “show me” epsitle.

I'll "show you" again.

You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. (James 2: 24)

The Holy Spirit included James for a reason, and that is to stimulate us to consider the full counsel of scripture. We must not "simplify" or "explain away" difficult scriptures because it makes it easier for us to understand.

I've heard lots of creative and not-so-creative twistings of James in an effort to counter what it is clearly saying, though it may not agree with our "theology." James specifically addresses Romans 4:1-4, elaborating:

You see faith was working with his works, and as a result of works, faith was perfected; and the scripture was fulfilled which says, "And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness," and he was called a friend of God. You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone." (James 2:22-24)

Justified by works and not by faith alone -- there it is.

[Jim W N]

"But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested" Romans 3:21.

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Romans 3:28

I'm done with you. You're a candidate for the warnings in Galatians One.

Take care.

[SecAmndmt]

” I’m pretty sure you are among those who are pissed off by the gospel of grace because it excludes your performance. “

Nope.

Once again: someone who has not repented from their sins, who embraces and promotes sin, is not a Christian. Works are evidence of salvation, not justification or sanctification. Yes, we have to combat the works of the flesh. It is a lifelong struggle. Who or what helps us? The Holy Spirit.

You continue to misrepresent the position of Christians in this thread who have clearly shown that it is you who is promoting a different Gospel.

Who says we are under the Law? Nobody who is saved. But the New Covenant did NOT cancel the law, except as to judgment. The law is our guide as to conduct. If you murder, or steal, or engage in the homosexual lifestyle, it is very likely that you never were saved in the first place.

Do you deny the existence of the Holy Spirit?

What is your denomination?

[SecAmndmt]

“Justified by works and not by faith alone — there it is.”

No, we are not justified by works. All the work was done on the Cross. But our works illustrate our salvation, which was accomplished by the work on the Cross.

Muddying the waters is not helping. The answer to antinomianism is not Catholicism.

[HarleyD]

Nowhere does scripture teach that. That's what your carnal mind teaches you.

I'd suggest you study God's word a little more diligently. There are plenty of places. For example:

2Ch 36:14  All the officers of the priests and the people likewise were exceedingly unfaithful, following all the abominations of the nations. And they polluted the house of the LORD that he had made holy in Jerusalem. 

2Ch 36:15  The LORD, the God of their fathers, sent persistently to them by his messengers, because he had compassion on his people and on his dwelling place. 

2Ch 36:16  But they kept mocking the messengers of God, despising his words and scoffing at his prophets, until the wrath of the LORD rose against his people, until there was no remedy. 

...

Joh 9:40  Some of the Pharisees near him heard these things, and said to him, “Are we also blind?” 

Joh 9:41  Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no guilt; but now that you say, ‘We see,’ your guilt remains. 

...

Rom 1:22  Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 

Rom 1:23  and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. 

Rom 1:24  Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves,  

...

Rom 11:25  Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 

Do you need other verses? There are plenty. While it may feel good to think otherwise, there is a time when a hardening comes upon our hearts if we constantly reject God's outward call. This is what the whole scripture teaches.

God is a God of love and compassion. What you are missing is just how evil and corrupt we are to constantly spurn the grace of God. But no one want to talk about our moral depravity these days.

[Jim W N]

When I say ‘scripture”, I am of course, in the context of our discussion here, referring to the gospel of grace in the New Covenant found in the NT which replaced the Old Covenant of the law of the OT (Heb 8:13).

All of the NT scriptures you cited refer to those outside of faith in Christ where, yes, there does comes a point when a person has said no to Christ for the very last time, and sadly are lost forever.

But that is not the theme of this thread which is salvation initially and continually by grace alone and not works.

Pay attention.

[HarleyD]

The writer of Heb 8:33 is referring to the old covenant of works verses grace. But there is no difference between the Old Testament and New in the way God saved. All are saved by faith through God's grace (Heb 11). God saved those in the Old Testament EXACTLY the same way as in the New-by His grace. The only difference is that the OT believers looked forward to the day when the Messiah would save them. The NT believers look back. The writer of Hebrews make that very clear.

It seems you at least acknowledge in the NT where God does withholds His grace and a person is lost forever. That's a start.

That IS the theme of this tread when I stated that sodomy is an abomination before God and is an indication that a person might have cross that line based upon Romans 1. That is not to say that a person still cannot be saved from that situation. It only is to say it is an indication of deep depravity in their lives.

People simply don't wish to acknowledge the depravity of man and how rebellious we are. Instead they simply want to focus on God's grace and goodness. There are two sides to this coin.

[Jim W N]

the depravity of man and how rebellious we are

Which NO MAN could EVER fix. BUT GOD did in Christ through the cross. Grace, UNMERITED FAVOR, is ours because Jesus took the hit for ALL the sins of ALL the WORLD.

In the OT Elijah's sacrifice along with all the priests of Baal was consumed by God's judgment. But on the cross, the sacrifice of Christ consumed all of God's wrath, condemnation, and judgement. He declared, "IT IS FINISHED" and sealed the deal upon his resurrection.

Jesus said to the sexually promiscuous woman, "I do not condemn you"and "There is therefore NO CONDEMNATION to those in Christ" (Rom 8:1 - (the original does NOT contain the qualifications some translations have in the rest of that verse)).

Christ paid for everyone's sins forever. You commit double jeopardy by trying to condemn sodomites for whose sins Christ paid the full price. You think sodomites' sins are greater than yours? Not in God's eyes.

You need to study the books of Romans and Galatians which unfold the details of the gospel of the grace of Christ by which we are saved without works, and reread them several times.

[daniel1212]

Again, salvation initially and perpetually is either by grace or by the works of the law. It cannot be by both. The two are mutually exclusive.

Indeed, but it is your apparent inability to see that since faith is what is appropriates a right standing with God, making is "accepted in the Beloved" on His account, then it is imperative that one has faith, that such is a believer, and thus a possessor of the promises given to those who believe.

And since the only kind of faith that is salvific is that which, as described and ignored, is that out of a poor and contrite heart, (Ps. 34:18; Is. 66:2) and which effects characteristic obedience to the Object of said faith, which obedience includes repentance when convicted of not walking in obedience.

But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. (Romans 6:17-18)

But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. (Romans 6:22)

Which thus excludes those who "deny the faith" either by assent to a false gospel and or by willfully impenitently living contrary to His known will, which believers are warned against, as shown.

Now a reminder of a warning. "You are turned away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel...but even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed." Gal 1:6;8-9. A double curse is pronounced by God in Galatians through Paul to anyone who brings another "gospel" (there is only ONE true gospel) of salvation by works rather than by grace.

Exactly, and thus it follows that those who profess to be believers but whose evidential fruit is contrary to what Scripture manifests saving faith to be, are in the same class as those who do not even profess, let alone possess, Biblical faith.

So what about Hebrews 10:26-27? Well, to rightly divide the word of truth, we must understand who scripture is addressing. In this case, the author (probably Paul) is talking to the Jews who were the first recipients of the oracles of God and witnessed and experienced the blood of sacrifice and the Holy Spirit for 1500 years. If they reject Christ whose sacrifice took away all their sins, then "there is no more sacrifice" for their sin of rejecting Christ.

Wrong, absurd by expected. It is incontrovertible that as in Galatians 5, Paul is addressing believers as believers, exhorting them, not to come to faith and warning against not doing so, but to persevere in the faith, and warning them against falling away, as Israelites dd in time past of testing. Such as,

But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end. (Hebrews 3:6)

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; (Hebrews 3:12-14)

But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak. For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister. (Hebrews 6:9-10)

What about the Book of James and works with faith? James is talking about "show me" and "I'll show you". He's not talking contrary to the gospel of grace but about effective faith that others can see. But others don't decide one's salvation. Believing in Christ is the ONLY standard of salvation.

And where did i ever say otherwise, or even mention James? But he is not simply referring to what justifies as regards what men see, for he describes what saves a person, which is not an inert faith, but one which is Abrahamic, and thus effects works. While James would be contradicting both Moses and Paul if he taught works is what appropriates justification before God, but as with Paul, James can described the nature of saving faith.

Effective Christianity is not a condition for salvation, but for victorious Christianity.

Wrong. Where in the world did you get that? Where do you see ineffectual, inert faith ever been described as salvific? Its not Lot. Instead, the promises of salvation are given to believers, and believers are characteristic followers and repenters as needed, as show, to which more can be added such as, .

In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. (1 John 3:10)

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. (1 John 5:13)

"These things have I written unto you" refers to the previous 4+ chapters which describe saving faith, in contrast to the lost.

There are many defeated Christians.

For sure, for we can have besetting sins, (Heb. 12:1) but ultimately victorious believers are those who repent when convicted of not following their Lord (as David did) and who overall practice righteousness. They wish the never sinned, and look forward to deliverance from this "vile body" as Paul called it.

The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit. (Psalms 34:18)

But where there is no continuing fruit, which saving faith effects, but impenitent sinning, then there is no salvific faith.

There are many defeated Christians. They belong to Jesus who promised NEVER to leave them but they have failed to avail themselves of the "abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness" by which they may "reign in life" (Rom 5:17).

The promise never to leave them is given to believers, who are too clearly warned against "departing from the living God," drawing back into perdition," making Christ "of no effect," to profit them nothing, versus holding firm that faith unto the end. (Heb. 3:12,14; 10:25-39; Gal. 5:1-5)

As far as worldliness goes, the world (and a significant number of Christians) knows nothing about grace. You ask the average guy on the street if he's going to Heaven and he'll say, "Yes, I've been good." But to a confidant he'll say, "I feel guilty, I just committed adultery." The world knows all about the ten commandments. The ten commandments makes sense to the fleshly mind.

Wrong, for they make sense to the Holy Spirit who affirmed Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. (Romans 7:12)

For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. (Romans 7:14)

And what you denigrate is what the Spirit exalts such as in Ps. 119. But while revelatory the Law cannot provide salvation, being like a schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. (Galatians 3:24) ,

So your doctrine of salvation by works is very worldly.

What? Mere bombast. It is you who is not preaching Biblical salvation by faith, faith which is counted for righteousness, an effectual faith which manifests one is a believer. Instead you seems to be preaching a faith in a promise abstract from the person of the Lord Christ, who and what He did, which is who and what real believers believer in, and thus seek to please Him.

In contrast to which are those who turn the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and thus deny the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. (Jude 4) You seem to bed down in that camp!

This may be it for me with you. I'm pretty sure you are among those who are pissed off by the gospel of grace because it excludes your performance. . Self righteousness and self effort are excluded from grace. You may also be pissed because the gospel of the grace of Christ is contrary to a lot of the traditional doctrines taught today by the religious establishment who as in Jesus day, "teach for doctrines the commandments of men" (Matt 15:9), because the gospel clearly says "you are NOT under the law, but under grace" (Rom 6:14). You mind reading it also erroneous (I thank God i am not saved because my lowly works merit it) , contrary to your inference that it is you who has spiritual judgment, as is your understanding of what is means to be NOT under the law, but under grace. For rather than a lower standard, under grace the believer is rightly motivated and enabled to follow the Lord by the Spirit, "That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Romans 8:4)

And from the beginning repentance is enjoined on converts:

But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judæa, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. (Acts 26:20)

Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. (2 Corinthians 6:17-18)

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. (2 Corinthians 7:1)

And such obedience manifested they were believers:

Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God. For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake. And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost: So that ye were ensamples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia. For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing. (1 Thessalonians 1:4-8)

And thus those who will not repent are warned,

And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed. (2 Corinthians 12:21)

For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. (Ephesians 5:5)

And in contrast to "old sins," (2Pt. 1:9) "sins that are past," (Rm. 3:25) before conversion, God does see your sins and thus will chasten you in seeking to bring you to repentance.

But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. (1 Corinthians 11:32)

And while those who die in effectual penitent holy saving faith will not be damned for their sins, their works by which they built the church with, even if indirectly, will be judged as to what manner they are of, with the losing or gaining of rewards accordingly, (1Co. 3:8ff)

By attaching salvation by Biblical faith and contending for salvation by unBiblical faith then one is preaching a false gospel, which is manifestly NOT what Paul preached, and which is accursed.

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. (Galatians 1:8)

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do [habitual practice[ such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. (Galatians 5:19-21)

[daniel1212]

He needs to read HARVARD LAWS OF 1642

[Elsie]

Pro-gay activist ‘reinterpreted’ anti-homosexuality Bible verses in LGBT-‘affirming’ Harvard speech

HMMMmmm...

...got a LIST of those 'Reinterpreted' verses?

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A BIBLICAL Message to LGBT folks EVERYWHERE!

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Genesis 13:13

Now the men of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the LORD.

Genesis 18:20-21
20. Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous
21. that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know."

Genesis 19:4-7
4. Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the house.
5. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
6. Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him
7. and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing.

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Leviticus niv

18:22 Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.

20:13 If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

 

 

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Psalms 12:8 The wicked freely strut about when what is vile is honored among men.

Isaiah 3:9 The look on their faces testifies against them; they parade their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to them! They have brought disaster upon themselves.

2 Peter 2:13b Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.

Ezekiel 16:49-50
49. "`Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
50. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.

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Romans 1     New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)

 

 18 The wrath of God is indeed being revealed from heaven against every impiety and wickedness of those who suppress the truth by their wickedness. 19 For what can be known about God is evident to them, because God made it evident to them. 20 Ever since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes of eternal power and divinity have been able to be understood and perceived in what he has made. As a result, they have no excuse; 21 for although they knew God they did not accord him glory as God or give him thanks. Instead, they became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless minds were darkened. 22 While claiming to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for the likeness of an image of mortal man or of birds or of four-legged animals or of snakes.

 

24 Therefore, God handed them over to impurity through the lusts of their hearts for the mutual degradation of their bodies. 25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and revered and worshiped the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26 Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural, 27 and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity. 28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God handed them over to their undiscerning mind to do what is improper. 29 They are filled with every form of wickedness, evil, greed, and malice; full of envy, murder, rivalry, treachery, and spite. 

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2 Peter 2

1. But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
3. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
4. For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;
5. if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;
6. if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
7. and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men
8. (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)--
9. if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.
10. This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority. Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings;
11. yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord.
12. But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
13. They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.

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But there IS hope!!!

1 Corinthians 6:9-11

9. Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:
Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
10. nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
11. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

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If you could NOT change, you would be in most pitiful shape...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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The Health Risks of gay sex.

Psalms 12:8 The wicked freely strut about when what is vile is honored among men.

Isaiah 3:9 The look on their faces testifies against them; they parade their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to them! They have brought disaster upon themselves.

2 Peter 2:13b Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.

Ezekiel 16:49-50
49. "`Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
50. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.

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Romans 1     New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)

 

 18 The wrath of God is indeed being revealed from heaven against every impiety and wickedness of those who suppress the truth by their wickedness. 19 For what can be known about God is evident to them, because God made it evident to them. 20 Ever since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes of eternal power and divinity have been able to be understood and perceived in what he has made. As a result, they have no excuse; 21 for although they knew God they did not accord him glory as God or give him thanks. Instead, they became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless minds were darkened. 22 While claiming to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for the likeness of an image of mortal man or of birds or of four-legged animals or of snakes.

 

24 Therefore, God handed them over to impurity through the lusts of their hearts for the mutual degradation of their bodies. 25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and revered and worshiped the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26 Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural, 27 and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity. 28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God handed them over to their undiscerning mind to do what is improper. 29 They are filled with every form of wickedness, evil, greed, and malice; full of envy, murder, rivalry, treachery, and spite. 

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2 Peter 2

1. But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
3. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
4. For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;
5. if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;
6. if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
7. and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men
8. (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)--
9. if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.
10. This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority. Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings;
11. yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord.
12. But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
13. They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.

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But there IS hope!!!

1 Corinthians 6:9-11

9. Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:
Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
10. nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
11. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

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If you could NOT change, you would be in most pitiful shape...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

---

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The Health Risks of gay sex.

[nonsporting]

No, we are not justified by works.

The Holy Spirit through James says we are.

You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. (James 2:24)

James just explained:

You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; (James 2:22)

This is the point that James is making: "faith was working with his works".

Further, James is not contradicting what Paul says is Romans 4:2, where he states that works justify.

For if Abraham were justified (ἐδικαιώθη --aorist indicative passive) by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. (Romans 4:2)

This is a 'part particular' conditional. It is not implying that Abraham was not justified by works ('contrary to fact'). On the contrary he was justified by works and James says he was (James 2:21-23).

Can the claim of faith which is not proven with works "save"?

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? (James 2:12)

James' answer is "No." He calls that faith "dead".

James makes us feel uncomfortable. We know we should be working.

Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work. Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest. (John 4:34,35)

[Elsie]

But that is NOT what the Bible says.

What did JESUS say??

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John 6:25-40

²⁵ When they found him on the other side of the lake, they asked him, “Rabbi, when did you get here?”

²⁶ Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because you saw the signs I performed but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. ²⁷ Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”

²⁸ Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

²⁹ Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

³⁰ So they asked him, “What sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you? What will you do? ³¹ Our ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written: ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’^[c]”

³² Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. ³³ For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”

³⁴ “Sir,” they said, “always give us this bread.”

³⁵ Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. ³⁶ But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. ³⁷ All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. ³⁸ For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. ³⁹ And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. ⁴⁰ For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

[liberalh8ter]

Well, he’s mentally ill, sooooooooo.....

[Elsie]

“My Bible says those sins I commit now and in the future were already fully and completely judged 2000 years ago so that now, God sees each of us believers as he sees Jesus (1 John 4:17).”

HMMMmmm...

HUH??

 

1 John 4:17 King James Version (KJV)

  Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

[Jim W N]

???

[Elsie]

Verses 28-29...

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Micah 6:8

He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.

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John 6:28-29
Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?

 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

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1 John 3:21-23
Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him.
And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.

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James 1:27

Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

 

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[Jim W N]

And your point is...???