At one time back in the day, inside most police cars were equipped with an M-870 shotgun. Then theres an odd ball patrolman with his AR-15 with .223 caliber. Which patrolman has the advantage? Posted on 07/11/2017 9:39:24 AM PDT by w1n1
At one time back in the day, inside most police cars were equipped with an M-870 shotgun. Then theres an odd ball patrolman with his AR-15 with .223 caliber. Which patrolman has the advantage?
The logic behind the usage of an AR stems from situations where a firearm needed for greater range than a shotgun.
So the debate begins, shotgun folks talk about having the knock down power to stop the fight with its 00 buck. AR’s with its high velocity and more firepower in terms of 20 rounds – 30 rounds magazine capacity.
Using either firearm we can make a perfect case as the weapon of choice to have for personal defense. In order for us to decide in an un-biased environment, a test should be conducted for validation. We can do this by pitting the two guns in a side by side shootout.
There needs to be a determination that each gun should be fired at the same target and at the same range. Because the idea is to ascertain some kind of combat effectiveness under stress, a time limit needs to be establish on each stage.
This test was based from Wiley Clapp test out on Gunsite where he had two Range Masters both skilled with the shotgun and AR go through this special course of fire. (Bill Murphy – shotgun and Vince Morgan – AR-15)
This course of fire were as follow: A shooter armed with respective firearm would engage a silhouette at various ranges. First at 15 yards, then 25, 50, 75 and 100 yards. At the command of a whistle the shooter would have 3 seconds to fire off as many rounds as possible onto the target. Read the rest of the shot gun vs AR-15 test here. How bout you all, which would you go with?
Well that’s the way I carry mine at work. Same goes for my M4. So you keep your long gun loaded anyway you want pal because I’m sure you know better.
One shot one kill.
Haha you have more than one shot.
Most exchanges do not last very long. You do not have all day to shoot at your target inside your home. Most exchanges last a matter of seconds.
Anyone with training in both will tell you that the only reason to have a pistol in a firefight is to fight your way back to the rifle you should have never let yourself get away from.
Given the choice of one verses the other, rifle always wins. Vests can stop many pistol rounds, not many rifle rounds. A rifle, handled properly, can clear small spaces and shoot at ranges beyond pistol accuracy.
Nothing against pistols. I use them to. But no contest between the two, given proper training.
The only downside to a rifle I can see is use in urban environment where you have to worry about where the round goes after it has blown open the perp in your house. The bullet will be going through several walls before coming to rest. Not necessarily good for your neighbors. In those cases a shotgun or pistol is probably better suited.
I partially agree with your statement about inside the home.
The only downside to a rifle I can see is use in urban environment where you have to worry about where the round goes after it has blown open the perp in your house. Not necessarily good for your neighbors in the next apartment or house right next door. In those cases a shotgun or pistol might be better suited.
I know that - done simulators. Again, at night, your first shot with a .357 will blind you. You’ll not have a chance for a second.....
My point is a .357 is a great weapon, but not for home defense at night.
You need to trade those hydra shocks in for some gold dots, 38 special does not generate enough velocity for expansion.
LOL, yep. Gotta pull out the Fist Full Of Dollars DVD tonight.
Shotguns leave a mess afterwards.
Imagine raw hamburger meat all over your walls.
Especially in carbine.
If your talking fight for the medium to long range I’ll take a 223 or 556.
However, we are talking about inside the house defense.
I normally don’t get into these testosterone “mine is bigger than yours” discussions but a 1-1/2 ounce shotgun shell = 656 grains. Cops seem to prefer long guns where applicable.
No one was talking about ‘work’. We’re talking about in your home, your bedroom.
If you want to make yourself a target in your home, “I’m sure you know better”.
Uh, my post was meant as sarcasm. (Check out my screen name.)
Almost exactly the same as my home defense load out. The 20 gauge first with half #6 shot and then half slugs.
GP 100 .357 Mag on nightstand and Remington 870 with 00 Buckshot in corner
In a situation at my home a year ago, I had a choice between pistol and shotgun. I went with the shotgun in hand and the Glock with tritium sights (holstered) at my side. In the event that six rounds of 12 gauge buckshot were not enough, I had 33 rounds of 9 mm (Glock - so the holster was essential), plus two extra 9 mm magazines for extreme overkill. In a shooting situation, I had no intention of reloading if the shotgun was not getting the job done. As it turned out, I didn’t have to shoot, and the police captured the (slow-moving, rookie) intruders . . . when they finally arrived 20 minutes later.
Others may disagree with my choices, but that’s what I planned for. It’s also what I went with when I thought I might really be shooting. The shotgun has a red dot sight because I don’t trust my aim without it. I’ve practiced with the red dot on my 870, and I hit quickly every time, so close to dead center that it doesn’t matter. The 9 mm? I’m not as good with that as I am with my 1911, but I’m good enough, and it will never run out of ammo with the Glock. If I’ve fired 99 rounds and the bad guys are still coming, I’m probably having a Walking Dead nightmare.
As for the AR, it’s staying in the safe. It may be right for someone else, or for somewhere else, but I’m not using it inside the home.
AR with the right rounds won’t penetrate as much as 00. I keep a mag of 45 grain hollow points in one for just such contingencies.
re: “ First at 15 yards, then 25, 50, 75 and 100 yards. At the command of a whistle the shooter would have 3 seconds to fire off as many rounds as possible onto the target.”
At 15 to 50 yards, the shotgun will cover the distance, and can be done in 3 seconds with a pump shotgun.
At 50 to 100 yards, the ‘ar-15’ can easily be fired in 3 seconds, and can cover those distnaces, as proven by years of military records of .223-caliber usage.
Now, the shotgun question begins to open ‘new ground’, when you introduce such things as a newer Kel-Tec or UTS ‘bullpup’ double-feed tube design, OR, the introduction of what can be described as ‘half-size’ shotshells.
For those familiar with ‘wild west shootout’ competitions, there are those individuals who can readily discharge a double-barrel shotgun in a few rounds in less than 3 seconds.
For those that know the .223-caliber, might agree that the rule, “know your backstop” becomes a BIG deal at less than 50 yards. ‘Jus’ sayin’’.
A lot of folks are going to read this article, and then interject their favorite pistol/revolver of choice into this testing of shotgun vs. rifle.
I could as well ‘plug in’ my little aerie (without the moon door), and for my parameters nothing larger than a two-inch-.38Special-snubby would do.
But I digress, we are talking shotgun vs. rifle.
I have had both, and have used both, and washed my hands of both.
Depends on situation, I would probably go with AR if I were an officer on patrol. At home a glock 21 rests on my nightstand with a 22 inch barrel mossy 500 loaded with 4 low recoil buckshot loads and a slug for #5 round. If I answer the door after dark I have a Commander .45 in my hand or waistband. If there is sufficient cause for concern outside my door I have an old chicom SKS with a 30 rd magazine I turn too.
My parents house has nearly a 20 yard hallway, lots of bedrooms, closets and bathrooms. Only one I can think of that long.
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