Posted on 11/17/2015 12:29:45 PM PST by w1n1
We've all been part of these discussions, and we've all read a ton of them on forums and blogs over the years: "If you could have only one gun for TEOTWAWKI, what would it be?" A more enlightened-seeming variant on this same theme are discussions that start with, "If you could pick only three guns for TSHTF.."
Here's what's wrong with so many of these discussions: no matter what flavor of civilization-ending apocalypse you contemplate-meteor strike, super volcano, global pandemic, EMP blast, etc.-a SHTF scenario is likely to play out in phases, and for each phase you're going to need a different skill set and a different load-out. You'll not just need a gun, but a complement of tools and skills.
Below is my brief attempt to sketch out the three phases that society would go through in a total collapse, and to think about some load-out options for each. Sure, you could read this and then pick three guns–one gun per phase-but by the end you'll see that this attitude is putting the cart before the horse. The smarter thing to do is to put together a set of load-outs that will give you multiple options for dealing with each phase. You may still end up with three guns, but the point is that "which three guns.." is not the question that you start with. Instead, the right question is "What mix of weapons and accessories are the best fit for each of the scenarios I'm envisioning?"
Phase 1: Martial Law and Trigger-Happy Authorities In the initial phase of a catastrophe, a phase that admittedly may last only a day or two depending on the swiftness and severity of the cataclysm, there will be some attempt by authorities to maintain law and order. During this phase, if you're walking around with an AR or AK strapped to your back, you're likely to be taken for a looter and shot on sight.
This is the red dot or reflex sight + polymer frame pistol phase. Mobile, concealable, accurate, quiet, and 100% reliable are what you're looking for. Don't worry about how long the batteries will last in your Aimpoint right now. You just have to get through this phase without getting arrested or shot. Read the rest of the story here.
They can’t live in those things forever and they have to leave at some point to go “home”.
You responded to wrong poster; I’m not a thug like the one you intended, quite the opposite I assure you.
Maybe in urban areas. Otherwise though, even in the suburbs, that would be an expensive effort for very little gain. My guess is that even liberals and jackboots will lose interest after only a few homes. In rural areas, gun country where most homes have firearms? Not going to happen more than once or twice in any one county. I'm old enough that I care more about setting a precedent and defending freedom than about the outcome for me (which would eventually be bad if they tried to search my home to take my private property, whether guns or food).
They’re already training for this. Doing searches for weapons dealers, drug trafficers and so forth.
They’ll come with overwhelming force.
How long would that take, how many casualties would they suffer, and what would they gain? Are they going door-to-door gun grabbing with overwhelming force? At that point, the decent American’s life depends on those guns, so he might as well take some jackboots with him. Are they taking stored food? Again, same answer.
People with grown children out of the home will not give in quietly, so the thugs can either wear those Americans out with a siege, or look like the brutal modern version of the Gestapo that they are. It would not be one or two Waco/RubyRidge events a decade, it would be many per day if they wanted to get anywhere. I don’t see that happening. They would have to climb out of their tanks to go home pretty much daily, and there would be a whole lot of unhappy people who knew they were on the list for later who would respond unpleasantly.
Are you threatening me, or are you just a paranoid loon? You have no idea what my plans and preparations are. Let’s keep it that way.
Agreed. A .22 rifle and a brick of ammo is better than nothing. You have to start somewhere.
Casita Trailer?
That’s why hand loading and stocking up on components is important.
IMO they are preparing to do just that. Many Americans are conditioned to submit. Could be your neighbors informing the cops on where your stuff is.
Could be mine.
The point is history shows an oppressive government is really hard to beat. This isn’t their first rodeo and their tactics have been well tested throughout history. Obama and Soros are not stupid but they are evil.
Actually, I disagree. This is their first rodeo in a place like the United States. They have tried a few events here, but they have not figured out even Cliven Bundy (not taking a position on the degree to which Bundy was justified). They don't have any idea what Americans will do if it comes down to a shooting war between a (hypothetical, of course) Nazi-like federal government and real Americans. They have no idea what will work or how many Americans will actively oppose a thuggish government, how organized patriotic Americans will be, or how aggressively various traitors will be targeted. It's been done in other countries, but never in a country with anywhere near as many armed citizens.
That's why disarming us is so important to Hillary, to Obama, and to all the other enemies of freedom. If they can take our guns, then we will be on their turf, and it will not be their first rodeo. Socialists know exactly how to oppress a disarmed population incapable of resisting. Then the best response is passive aggressive - everyone stops trying, but socialists don't care how many people starve, so long as they can give the orders.
"It is better to rule in hell than to serve in heaven."
Milton (Paradise Lost)
MRAPs and other vehicles are not invulnerable - and it is cheap to counter them (if one uses one’s gray matter): http://madogre.com/OldMadOgre/Interviews/myths_molotovs.htm
Meanwhile, a big honking, LOUD Mosin will be very noticeable.
The Israeli’s used integrally suppressed 10/22s to drop Palis. It’s become quite popular. Combined with urban ranges and semi-auto action with a 10 or 25 round magazine, and you can own your castle with anonymity.
I agree regarding the value of a quiet weapon in most of the populated areas. It even applies in empty areas with lots of space for 500-yard guns, because the guy with that gun has to wonder if his target has a friend or 3, or family that'll be out for his scalp...and who will have a very good idea where he is because of the loud report.
I have a match-grade 10/22 with a threaded barrel. I've got a solvent trap adapter for it, so that I can clean the rifle without spilling any and fouling the environment. A standard oil filter, available at the local Wallyworld for about $4.00, traps the solvent, no muss, no fuss. Oh, sorry about that - there was a squirrel that just jumped into my view, sorry for the diversion. :>) Yeah, and I've also got a fair amount of accurate sub-sonic ammo that fits it.
All that being said, Man is a tool-making and tool-using creature, and the smarter of us know that different jobs require different tools...and firearms are, after all, just tools. That scoped centerfire boltie - Mosin or otherwise - has its place. I'd rather have both and only need one, than the other way around.
OATMEAL! It’s more than what’s for breakfast.
“They can’t live in those things forever and they have to leave at some point to go “homeâ€.”
Tactical genius - never fight your enemy where he is strongest, but where YOU are. Also, strategic genius - this forced the Germans to have concentrated forces, so that they could protect each other, leaving large portions of the country unoccupied by them and a pretty much open space for Tito and his supporters.
MRAPs are devastating against poorly armed people with only small arms, if the MRAPs get in the first lick. Against RPGs, or even Molotov Cocktails with the attackers getting in the first lick...eh, not so much.
“They’ll come with overwhelming force.”
Leaving their families unprotected. No plan survives contact with the enemy - and if the enemy (the people) have nothing left to lose and only a few brains, then many will not be at home when that force arrives, they’ll be hunting two-legged creatures that are near and dear to those forces.
I have plenty of oatmeal, some stashed where only I know where it is. It may be a bit stale if I don’t rotate it (I do), but for some uses stale doesn’t matter.
Haha! Only G-d himself can see through Kudzu.
Because I'm a skin flint and the MN is cheap. But you are correct on the range issue. You can only hit what you can see. I was thinking more of my own situation where visibility isn't so limited.
Same advice I got locally.
One car for a long stretch of beach road, and causeways will be closed at first sign of trouble. This will make any help from police in the area very unlikely. River harbors with thousands of boats (stolen?) will make access possible for “bad actors”.
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