Posted on 08/15/2015 4:45:38 AM PDT by don-o
The autopsy reports for the nine men killed in the Twin Peaks Massacre in Waco on May 17 are a thicket of words that don’t seem to answer many questions. The reports may be as important for what they don’t disprove as for what they do or don’t prove. They do not for example, disprove the notion that all, or at least most of the dead men were killed by police using M-16s and FN P90 machine guns.
Thirteen of sixteen entrance wounds were .25 inches in diameter or smaller.
FN P90s fire a round with a diameter of .224409 inches. M-16s fire slightly smaller rounds with diameters of 0.218898 inches. All but one of the victims had wounds fired from a downward trajectory. Six of the nine dead had head or neck wounds. None of the wounds contained gunshot residue which indicates that the shots were fired from at least three feet away and probably five feet or farther away. The absence of residue casts doubt on claims by prosecutors of “Bandidos executing Cossacks, and Cossacks executing Bandidos.” Two of the dead had large wounds consistent with a 12 gauge shotgun slug. Ten of 16 wounds were in the back, indicating that the victims were running away when they died. Seven of the wounds were fired from right to left. Six were fired from left to right.
Nine millimeter bullets have a diameter of 0.35433 inches; forty caliber handguns fire a bullet that is four tenths of an inch in diameter and 357 magnums fire rounds that are about .357 inches in diameter.
Highly Deformed
Most of the recovered bullets were either highly deformed or fragmented which indicates they were fired by high velocity weapons and suggests those bullets were shaped like a swallow’s tail. Bullets fired from M-16s have a muzzle velocity of 3,110 feet per second. Bullets fired from FN P90s leave that weapon’s comparatively short barrel at 2,350 feet per second. Bullets generally leave the barrels of nine millimeter handguns at between 950 and 1,300 feet per second; 40 mm handguns generally have a muzzle velocity of between 1,000 and 1,200 feet per second; bullets leave a .357 magnum at about 1,500 feet per second or less; 38 Specials generally have a muzzle velocity of 1,000 feet per second or less.
Most police ammunition in the United States is designed to penetrate a human body to a depth of 12 inches and for that reason that ammunition is usually copper jacketed. Most of the bullets that killed at the Twin Peaks were copper jacketed. Bullets fired from high velocity M-16s, have a tendency to tumble after impact. M-16 rounds tumble because the tail of the projectile is heavier than the nose. The kinetic energy contained in the round has to go somewhere so the bullet tumbles, deforms and usually stops before reaching a depth of 12 inches. Most of the wounds described in the autopsies are consistent with wounds inflicted by M-16s. Both M-16s and FN P90s fire swallow tail shaped bullets.
None of the autopsies include ballistics information. Notations by eight pathologists involved in the autopsies describe bullets and bullet fragments in very general and inconsistent terms. One hundred fifty-one firearms were seized at the crime scene. Bikers usually carry small caliber pistols that range from small revolvers and derringers up to .380 automatics. Ballistic tests on the weapons seized at the Twin Peaks are being conducted by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. An informed source with knowledge of ATF procedures speculated that the tests would be completed in November.
Although they “have not been convicted of a crime in Texas” to this point, wanna make odds on how many of them will be after they get before a judge to answer for their behavior at Twin Peaks?
I ask easttexsteve:
If only one third of the so-called “criminal gang members” arrested and held on million-dollar bail ... had prior arrest records (let alone actual criminal convictions), does that mean the cops are REALLY stupid and inept, or does it mean that the “criminal gang members” AKA “bikers” are really intelligent and wily? *****
easttexteve's response:
And, what does this have to do with the price of tea in China? What it means is they had rights that prevented them from being apprehended or dealt with up to this point.
Holy cow. Let that sink in. Assume that etsteve represents a law enforcement mindset. The mindset of our civil servants.
The reason two thirds of 177 thug biker gang members didn't have records was because they had rights that let them get away with it, but NOW, by golly ...
Do you live in an attic?
More likely, a belfry.
Hmmm, but I was told most all those motorcycle folks were bad gangland outlaw bikers?
Waco, we have a problem...
Ditto. And further proof why it has taken so long. Waco and McLennan Co. tax payers better get ready for the law suits.
Waco threads illustrate how evil dictators can always find shooters and grave diggers and cattle car conductors
The big honchos on the scene were ATF. That’s where I’d start looking for the instigators.
Why don’t you share more about yourself
Frame of reference stuff
It’s weird here how many LEO lovers and even south bashers claim Texas
I know east Texas very well
I ate at The Crawfish Stand in Big Sandy two weeks ago
Thanks. Updated the “operative” list.
Sooner or later, the Waco Police are going to run out of motorcycle riders to kill. Then they will start on ordinary citizens.
Release the videos now.
Yikes! Made a tech error myself- bore diameter of .218, groove/bullet diameter of .224
skulking emoticon inserted here.
Do you live under a bridge Fluffy?
I was at the shooting range today and got to try out a Tavor with an Eotech holographic sight. The first round put me in the 1” bullseye at 100 yds, despite failing vision that’s forced me to scope my rifles.
I’m now confident in saying that the Waco cops hit whatever they aimed at with their 12 or 13 rounds.
I also fired a bunch of 9mm, .357 mag and .380 ACP (9mm Kurz). All these rounds are essentially the same diameter, but each round put a slightly different hole in the paper targets.
The .357 punched clean holes at 7mm diameter, the .380 made holes from 4mm to 6mm with peripheral tearing and the 9mm produced consistent 6mm holes with less peripheral tearing than the .380.
Not scientific (too many undefined/uncontrolled variables) but I thought it might be amusing to share.
I saw esteves (?) original post the other day on this thread.
He was presenting as fact that anyone riding a motorcycle, and wearing a patch was automatically a criminal.
Much like the rest of the police apologists that haunt these threads.
After run-ins with another (whose name I WONT mention because I don’t want to call them from the netherworld), I seldom respond to these people.
It’s too much like debating a cinder block. Thick and hollow inside.
Thanks for the ping, been out of town with no internet, looks like things have not changed much, very interesting posts.
Finny wrote:
Holy cow. Let that sink in. Assume that etsteve represents a law enforcement mindset. The mindset of our civil servants.
****
You have a problem with people having “rights?”
Finny then wrote:
The reason two thirds of 177 thug biker gang members didn’t have records was because they had rights that let them get away with it, but NOW, by golly ...
*****
Do you get caught everytime your break the speed limit? Or, do the police have to see you do it, and have enough evidence against you to make a traffic stop and give you a ticket?
Lurker said:
Release the videos now.
*****
The videos are inculpatory evidence. If the prosecution intends to use them, then they most likely have already been added as evidence to the case file, to which anyone can go to the courthouse and see them. Be my guest.
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