Posted on 02/04/2015 9:43:28 AM PST by raptor22
ulture: An unlikely issue has entered the infant 2016 presidential campaign: Vaccines and required vaccinations. Let's hope the fact there's no scientific link to autism or anything else isn't lost in the political fray.
Candidates will often look for an edge over their opponents. Thus, both New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie and Sen. Rand Paul of Kentucky recently suggested that, while vaccinations are good, forcing parents to vaccinate their children might be too much.
We believe vaccines are safe and should be routine, but concern about parents' rights is not unreasonable. What really gripes us, however, is listening to the media make this out to be an issue dreamed up by anti-science, right-wing kooks. Far from it.
The issue has been pushed in recent years almost entirely by the left. Hollywood progressives and others in the media (see editorial, below) have promoted the idea that vaccines have possible nasty effects, such as autism, and that they're reason to keep kids from being vaccinated.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.investors.com ...
Do you eat multiple food groups at the same time? Do you eat your bread 5 hours after you meat in order to give your stomach "a break" or time to "settle down"? Do you space out vitamins?
See, this is the problem with making medical proclamations without any medical knowledge. You mistake "common sense" for evidence, and your "common sense" ends up being the wrong conclusion because it's based on erroneous assumptions, such as the immune system being "overloaded" by vaccines in the same way multiple illnesses will.
I'm only calling for it in schools where children congregate. If you don't want to vaccinate your child, then you keep them home.
It's silly to try and say that it's an attack on individual liberty if your fellow citizens make it more difficult for you and your children to spread preventable, serious, possibly deadly illnesses because you believe in pseudoscience.
Do you have the right to spread dangerous diseases?
Does a child with the measles have the right to go to school with hundreds of other children?
And there's no [real] evidence for anthropogenic global warming,
The difference is the track record. Vaccines work. Do you deny the eradication of smallpox occurred? Do you deny that many deadly diseases have been eradicated and/or reduced because of inoculation, or do you think it's because we just wash our hands more often?
We have yet to see evidence of government regulations affecting the climate. Not so with vaccination; we've seen the results and they're a gift from God.
[ See, this is the problem with making medical proclamations without any medical knowledge. You mistake “common sense” for evidence, and your “common sense” ends up being the wrong conclusion because it’s based on erroneous assumptions, such as the immune system being “overloaded” by vaccines in the same way multiple illnesses will. ]
You know another good reason to space out vaccinations?
IF the person has a reaction to the vaccine and they are given multiple ones, HOW do you know which one caused the reaction if multiple vaccines were taken? So then next time when it is time for another round which ones do you then avoid / monitor? Hmmmm, Einstein?
If a kid is given a MMR shot, a Whooping Cough shot, and a Flu shot all at the same time and then has a reaction to the shot(s), then WHICH shot caused the reaction?
Geee, wouldn’t THAT nugget of info be a NICE peice of info for the parent to have.
Vs. spacing them out and finding out that your child has a reaction to one of them so next time when they need a boster they can take a different booster shot that may not have the same side effect....
But no, just jam a handful of needles into your kids arm and just pray they DON”T have a reaction to any of them, that is a good way to troubleshoot the problem....
You are a damned fool!
I hope your job doesn’t involve any sort of actual troubleshopoting that involves other peopel’s lives because you seem to fail at the idea of narrowing down problems and common sense.
The Almighty Government Fudnded and Ran CDC may say there is no benefit to spacing out vaccinations, but I sure as hell would want to space them out if for no other reason that a preventative step to be able to easily identify a reaction to a specific vaccine should one occur. Reactions DO occur, just read the damned documentation that COMES with the vaccines.
When i got my Tetanus shot last year I got a bad reaction to it, the doctor wanted to give me another vaccine at the same time (but I declined) , now if I had done so and gotten the other shot with it, do you think I would have been just fine a freeking dandy or would the reaction would ahve been WORSE?
Even if it was the SAME reaction I would have no damned WAY of knowing WHICH vaccine casued the REACTION I had. So next time I went in for a tetanus booster I would have no idea if I would get sick again or if I would get sick for the other vaccine booster I took....
USE YOUR DAMNED MIND FOR ONCE IN YOUR LIFE, USE SOME LOGIC!
It looks like you're just making up hypotheticals and inventing justifications without any scientific knowledge. There are no medical or scientific reasons to space out vaccines, and I've never read any of your claims in any medical or scientific literature.
Do you just like creative writing? Maybe you think that heavier objects fall faster than lighter objects, because you "used your mind" to figure that out. Using your mind is great, but if you don't have any specific knowledge of the subject at hand, you end up with faulty and erroneous conclusions, as you've shown here.
You could listen to doctors and scientists, or you could listen to cranks you read on the Internet.
I'll listen to my doctor, and not you. Thanks.
To begin with, they say, the premise that a simultaneous volley of shots could be too much for your child’s immune system needs to be put in context: Children’s immune systems are exposed to a constant barrage of foreign proteins, and vaccines are engineered to produce as focused an immune response as possible.
More broadly, here’s the big picture from Dr. Allison Kempe, a University of Colorado School of Medicine professor of pediatrics who researches popular resistance to vaccines:
“It’s a very small subset of parents who totally refuse vaccines,” she said, “but it’s an increasing number, and a much higher number, that are asking to space them out. And that results in the child being unprotected for longer periods of time. It may result in outbreaks of disease and it may mean that because the vaccines are spaced out, the child doesn’t actually end up getting all of them because it involves coming in for so many appointments.”
Here is a Question:
I had a reaction with my tetanus booster last year, had I taken the other booster the doctor was trying to push on me at the same time WHICH one one caused my bad reaction?
How would YOU have deteremined WHICH one would have caused the REACTION??
You think you are so damned smart answer ME!
What happened to me WAS NOT A HYPOTHETICAL, it actually Happened, and HAD I taken the other booster shot as well, I would NOT have know which one CAUSED the adverse reaction that basically gave me sever flu like symptoms for a MONTH last summer.
Answer me since you are so damend smart!
To vaccinate or to not vaccinate.
Can you say “diversion” boys and girls?
I knew you could, just ignore that little man behind the curtain...
Did you know that even though the Super Bowl is over, that Deflategate is still being debated?
Can you say “deflategate” boys and girls?
I knew you could, just keep ignoring that little man behind the curtain.
Can you say “rancor” boys and girls? I knew you could.
Can you say “marijuana” boys and girls?
I knew you could, you’re doing a fine job of ignoring the little man behind the curtain...
If you think your Doctor is negligent, or don't like his diagnosis, I would seek what is commonly known as a second opinion.
You say:
I'm only calling for it in schools where children congregate. If you don't want to vaccinate your child, then you keep them home.
But how many are trying to make homeschooling illegal?
Kind of like the CA courts saying that because concealed carry is an option that the prevention of open carry is legitimate and not infringing on the right to keep and bear arms — but what happens when conceal carry is restricted?
It's silly to try and say that it's an attack on individual liberty if your fellow citizens make it more difficult for you and your children to spread preventable, serious, possibly deadly illnesses because you believe in pseudoscience. Do you have the right to spread dangerous diseases?
When my brother joined the marines he was in line for the vaccinations, holding up his big red dogtag for Ceclor (same family as penicillin) and he tells the corpsman to his face about it… the corpsman gave the penicillin to him anyway and immediately he turns white, a few seconds later he passes out. When he comes to, the drill sergeant is reaming the corpsman's ass for ignoring the DOCUMENTED DRUG ALLERGY.
And you want to tell me that making vaccines absolutely mandatory (where children congregate
) is going to be a good thing?
[ I would ask your Doctor. He knows more about vaccinations than you do. That’s what Doctors are for; to give medical advice.
If you think your Doctor is negligent, or don’t like his diagnosis, I would seek what is commonly known as a second opinion. ]
Gee Genius, when I came back a week a leter sick as a dog after my tetanus vaccination and after they ruled out that it wasn’t some other illness and WAS the vaccine that made me sick, the doctor said, and am Paraphrasing here: “I am glad we didn’t give you that other booster shot.”
So MY doctor was thankful that I decided AGAINST THEIR advice at the time (in your opinion I was stuipid for doing so) NOT to take that second shot when I got my tetanus shot.
Since your doctor is so damend infalliable why don’t you propose the vatican pick them as the next freeking pope.
I view Doctors as “Body Mechanics” since that is pretty much what they are, I realize they are smart, but they are NOT INFALLIABLE! And having a degree and medical school training does NOT make them GOD, it just makes them SLIGHTLY better than the average person at PLAYING GOD.
Oh and I bet your mechanic LOVES you, just LOVES you, when they tell you that your muffler bearing goes out and needs replacing and they quote you that it is going to take 500 bucks to replace it, but hey he is “The Expert” and has a shiny framed degree on his wall from Jiffy Lube-U.
[ When my brother joined the marines he was in line for the vaccinations, holding up his big red dogtag for Ceclor (same family as penicillin) and he tells the corpsman to his face about it… the corpsman gave the penicillin to him anyway and immediately he turns white, a few seconds later he passes out. When he comes to, the drill sergeant is reaming the corpsman’s ass for ignoring the DOCUMENTED DRUG ALLERGY.
And you want to tell me that making vaccines absolutely mandatory (where children congregate) is going to be a good thing? ]
Excellent Example!
Some self important government goon is going to get a lot of people killed because they will force mandatory vaccines on individuals despite medical counter indications. Just so they can reach their “quota”. this is another example of “institutional stupidity”.
If you can find any medical literature that says you should space out shots for children, feel free to share it.
But I've already shared documentation that proves you wrong.
Not me. Homeschool away.
And you want to tell me that making vaccines absolutely mandatory (where children congregate) is going to be a good thing?
Yes, and it's not my opinion. Is the measles outbreak that has spread to 14 states because of anti-vaxers a good thing?
Actually, I had my brakes replaced on Monday. The first quote was from a locally owned placed that was $700; he printed out his diagnosis so I could take it around.
I took the car to Aamco down the street, and they agreed with the diagnosis of the first place, but gave me a quote that was almost $300 cheaper by using a more affordable parts distributor.
The point being, I got a second opinion from another expert, instead of pretending I'm an expert car mechanic myself, much like you're pretending to be a medical expert.
All I can say at this point to you is well, Good Luck and hopefully your being Naive does not end up comming back to bite you and the people you love in the rear end. You may be one of the people this issue never affects and I hope you are, but science is a process and not an infailiable dogma.
One parting piece of adivce: One should be Skeptical in life and not always trust everything you read even if it comes from the so called “experts”. Always question and think through processes yourself and don’t just blindly follow things because people who spent more money on their education said so.
[ Yes, and it’s not my opinion. Is the measles outbreak that has spread to 14 states because of anti-vaxers a good thing? ]
Hey Genius, the jury is still out on if it was anti-vaxers or illegals that spread this thing around.
The media is saying it “could” have been anti vaxers, but they are using weasel words, they haven’t identified “patient Zero” yet.
the expertshave more of a claim over our determination than we ourselves do… you sir, are a tyrant.
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.”
― C.S. Lewis
I always ignore anecdotes in the face of evidence.
I don't care about the story of your brother in law, or how you "heard from a guy", or that back in the 80's there was this thing that happened.
Anecdotes told anonymously on the Internet are worthless as evidence, especially considering GraceG's story is completely irrelevant to the topic of pediatric medicine.
… you sir, are a tyrant.
Well, you're an idiot. You can do whatever the hell you want with your own body. But you have no right to spread deadly communicable diseases because you're stupid. Your right to be stupid ends at your neighbor's health.
This is such an odd statement.
Do you feel the same way about cardiology, brain surgery, endocrinology, and other medical sciences?
I'm just baffled by someone who thinks that she can give Doctors pointers because she read something on the Internet or "had a feeling". Do you feel the same way about brain surgery or cardiology? God forbid you have to have open heart surgery one day. Are you going to give your cardiologist pointers too?
Maybe you think the guys who built the Large Hadron Collider just had more expensive degrees than you do; otherwise they know just as much as anyone else.
Look, I don't believe your story. Maybe the Doctor was humoring you, and it wouldn't have made a difference if you got the second booster. Maybe you're embellishing, truncating, skipping parts of the story, or just under a flat misappreshension.
But the worst thing is that you appeal to skepticism, and then ask a complete stranger to use your anecdote as medically scientific gospel, even when presented with evidence to the contrary.
You don't really understand what skepticism means if you expect an unsourced, questionable story (that is not directly related to pediatric medicine) to be taken at face value in direct contradiction to the evidence.
Well, illegals spread it because they're unvaccinated, so excuse me if I really don't care about the difference with respect to the outbreak. If illegals started it, anti-vaxers made it worse.
That is, unless you have evidence that all of the infected parties in the outbreak are illegals. I'll be glad to look at your evidence if you have any.
The point is, outbreaks spread when people are unvaccinated, so this should be recognized when dealing with illegal immigration, border security, and the health policy of legal citizens.
The evidence was that of assembly-line style injections operators ignoring the clear, blatant physical documentation literally in the guy's hand.
I don't care about the story of your brother in law, or how you "heard from a guy", or that back in the 80's there was this thing that happened.
Brother.
And they gave me that injection, too — fortunately I didn't have a reaction, though I always made sure that my Army-doc knew of my own Ceclor allergy, before every injection.
(IOW, God was watching out for me there.)
Anecdotes told anonymously on the Internet are worthless as evidence, especially considering GraceG's story is completely irrelevant to the topic of pediatric medicine.
No, it's not; the immunologic adjuvant and preservatives is a real thing.
Aside from the are you allergic to eggs or shellfish
(flu shots) — I don't recall hearing any questions about the adjuvant/preservative/excipiant.
>> … you sir, are a tyrant.
>
> Well, you're an idiot.
Ah, because I distrust the government to hold my health in as high regard as I do?
If that's not the case, why would Death Panels be a concern for ObamaCare at all?
You can do whatever the hell you want with your own body.
No, apparently I can't.
As you said: I'm only calling for it in schools where children congregate.
Were I a teacher, I would be in the schools where children congregate
.
But you have no right to spread deadly communicable diseases because you're stupid. Your right to be stupid ends at your neighbor's health.
Who said anything about a right to spread disease?
We were talking about some right to control what is put into our bodies, no?
(And, in the case of parents, the right to have some say over their children.)
Again, you reveal that you wish to use the government to enforce and execute your particular ideal — you're not saying hey, let's educate people
but rather they should be forced to …
and that plants you in tyrant territory.
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