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Fox News Video: Donald Trump Goes There; Barack Obama's Real Name Is Barry Soetoro
Birther Report ^ | November 10, 2014

Posted on 11/11/2014 8:22:03 AM PST by Jonah Vark

Donald Trump: Obama's name was Barry Soetoro. Obama changed his name to Barack Hussein Obama...

(Excerpt) Read more at birtherreport.com ...


TOPICS: Government; Politics
KEYWORDS: barrackobama; barrysoetoro; birftards; birthers; donaldtrump; naturalborncitizen
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To: Leaning Right

What you referred to is called surrendership.


101 posted on 11/12/2014 12:47:05 PM PST by Huskerfan44 (Huskerfan44 (22 Yr, Navy Vet))
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To: Blue Jays

* (__)o(__)


102 posted on 11/12/2014 12:53:58 PM PST by Huskerfan44 (Huskerfan44 (22 Yr, Navy Vet))
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To: KevinB

That is almost below whale crap at the bottom of the ocean.


103 posted on 11/12/2014 12:58:04 PM PST by Huskerfan44 (Huskerfan44 (22 Yr, Navy Vet))
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To: infool7

Maybe they are getting ready for a repeat for Hilary.


104 posted on 11/12/2014 1:04:23 PM PST by Huskerfan44 (Huskerfan44 (22 Yr, Navy Vet))
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To: Sacajaweau

Nothing has come forward of any DNA comparison, might have to wait another century.


105 posted on 11/12/2014 1:11:18 PM PST by Huskerfan44 (Huskerfan44 (22 Yr, Navy Vet))
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To: Fantasywriter

“She was in Kenya.”

Given the evidence available, that would be a highly dubious conclusion.


106 posted on 11/12/2014 2:59:11 PM PST by Natufian (t)
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To: Natufian

Please provide evidence that she spent the nine mos of her pregnancy in HI.


107 posted on 11/12/2014 10:10:06 PM PST by Fantasywriter (Any attempt to do forensic work using Internet artifacts is fraught with pitfalls. JoeProbono)
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To: Fantasywriter

It’s the ‘she was in Kenya’ claim that’s dubious. You need to present something to back it up, at least to overcome the evidence already to hand that shows that she wasn’t - even if it’s just a putative travel plan that shows how she could have gotten from there to HI within the time frame available.


108 posted on 11/13/2014 1:07:53 AM PST by Natufian (t)
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To: nascarnation
But it took two decades for find out “Brilliant Bill” Clinton had 1032 SAT score.

Billy Jeff was a Rhodes Scholar and earned a law degree from Yale. How did he manage to hide his miserable SAT scores?

109 posted on 11/13/2014 1:25:15 AM PST by cynwoody
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To: cynwoody

Maybe 1960s ffirmative action for Arkies?

Let’s face it, ole BJ was/is pretty good at cheatin’


110 posted on 11/13/2014 6:07:51 AM PST by nascarnation (Impeach, Convict, Deport)
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To: Natufian

It’s a step by step process, Natufian. Like AA. Before you can get to step two, you have to make it past Step One. Step One for anti-birthers is acknowledging there isn’t one hint of a scrap of a shadow of a tertiary, third-hand hearsay clue that she spent the 9 mos of her pregnancy in HI.

Akin to it is the corollary. Had she been there, some trace of residency would remain. After all, there is no Black Hole in any other stage of her life. Her whereabouts both prior and subsequent to this period are well known and well established. So why this one gaping hole?

What I am looking for is an anti-birther who is capable of admitting that this is troubling/strange/anomalous at best. Unless and until an anti-birther can take this first, critical step, there’s no need trying to proceed. An alcoholic who says, ‘I don’t have a problem, but I’d like to hear your thoughts about fixing the problem I don’t have’ is just wasting two people’s time. It’s the alcoholic that can admit there is a problem who is ready to progress.


111 posted on 11/13/2014 7:02:15 AM PST by Fantasywriter (Any attempt to do forensic work using Internet artifacts is fraught with pitfalls. JoeProbono)
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To: Fantasywriter

Did you use the step by step process to choose Kenya as her location? A sort of ‘I can’t establish she’s in Hawaii so I’ll just assert she’s in Kenya instead regardless of whatever evidence there is to the contrary’ step by step process? That would seem to lack rigor if you did.

BTW, I would agree that there isn’t much evidence that she was there but to say there isn’t “one hint of a scrap of a shadow of a tertiary, third-hand hearsay clue that she spent the 9 mos of her pregnancy in HI” would be exaggerating.

As I recall, there is a reference to their marriage some time in 1961 in Hawaii in their divorce papers and also IIRC there is some testimony from the doctor who delivered her child - both of those would be classed at worst as tertiary or hearsay evidence.


112 posted on 11/13/2014 9:04:56 AM PST by Natufian (t)
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To: Natufian

Have you seen a marriage certificate? I haven’t, though I haven’t made a thorough search. I know that Stanley Ann’s principle biographer, Janny Scott, was unable to turn up any actual evidence of a wedding. She ended up saying the couple was “reportedly” married at such and such a time and place.

As to citing the Birth Certificate, Natufian, that is not worth a lot. In case you hadn’t noticed, there are many questions about that birth certificate. Others have argued about it for years. I don’t intend to rehash the whole thing. But I will note, it would be better if you could cite a less controversial piece of evidence.

Put another way, if the BC is as legitimate as you and others claim, there *should* be additional evidence. For example, I recall when David Maraniss’ book was about to be released, there was a lot of pre-publicity. One item that got a huge amount of attention was the claim that Maraniss had located people who knew about Stanley Ann going to the hospital and giving birth. Wow—that would have been quite a scoop!

Except that Maraniss had located no one with any knowledge of Stanley Ann’s pregnancy at all. He had found people who knew Stanley Ann in HI, and people who knew Obama Sr. in HI, but no one who knew the two were even acquainted. He found no evidence of Stanley Ann’s presence in HI at all during the pregnancy period. That is the period, btw, about which I am asking you. Do you have any evidence a little more solid than a ‘reported’ wedding or a disputed BC?


113 posted on 11/13/2014 9:25:15 AM PST by Fantasywriter (Any attempt to do forensic work using Internet artifacts is fraught with pitfalls. JoeProbono)
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To: Fantasywriter

First you ask for ‘tertiary’ or ‘third hand hearsay’ evidence that she was in Hawaii during her pregnancy and when I provide that you move the goal posts and start asking for something ‘more solid’. Why?

Obama Sr’s and Dunham’s marriage is recorded in the Hawaii Marriage Index 1960-1965 and also in the affidavits relating to their divorce (including actual date which was during her pregnancy). You’ve claimed there’s no evidence whatsoever. There is.

Any evidence that she was in Kenya during her pregnancy? No? Thought not but that’s not so surprising for birthers; they have a history of making unsupported claims and then moving the goal posts or vigorous handwaving when they’re called on it.


114 posted on 11/13/2014 9:59:36 AM PST by Natufian (t)
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To: Natufian

I’m not sure the wedding is as well documented as you imagine. Here’s how Bill Ayers, described it, in Dreams from my Father:

‘”How and when the marriage occurred remains a bit murky, a bill of particulars that I have never quite had the courage to explore. There’s no record of a real wedding, a cake, a ring, a giving away of the bride. No families were in attendance; it’s not even clear that people back in Kansas were informed.”’

Here’s what Micelle Obama had to say: ‘His own mother [Stanley Ann], she[Michelle Obama] said at the beginning of her remarks, was “very young and very single when she had him.”’

There is also the fact that Obama Sr. was already married. How eager he was to become a bigamist at that point in his American academic career I don’t know. It seems to take a fair share of blind faith to believe the wedding narrative. Where was Stanley Ann living before she hopped a plane to Maui? Not with O Sr.; she never lived with him. How was she supporting herself? Did she have a job?

If a line in a marriage index is all the evidence you need, then clearly we are wasting each other’s time. I wonder if that ‘documentation’ has ever been disputed? Would you admit it, if it had? Or if it favors Obama do you simply accept it blindly?

Do you consider that one data point as sufficient evidence that Stanley Ann spent the entire nine mos on HI? Does one line in an index prove that to you? I’m not talking about me, now, or what I believe. I am curious. Do you believe that one line in a marriage index proves a 9 mos residency. Bet you will dodge this one. I’ve lost all faith in the honesty of anti-birthers. All.


115 posted on 11/13/2014 10:30:19 AM PST by Fantasywriter (Any attempt to do forensic work using Internet artifacts is fraught with pitfalls. JoeProbono)
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To: Natufian

Btw, Natufian, you need to go back to my first post. I said very clearly, in so many words, I was not going on to Step Two unless and until there was a Step One. So all your huffing and puffing & hot air about whether there is evidence of a Kenyan birth is moot. I was crystal clear about what I would discuss, on what conditions & in what order. If you don’t remember what I said, go back and reread it.

This endemic nastiness of anti-birthers gets old fast. Are you all just very, very miserable people? Otherwise, why all the jerkishness? What do you lose by being civil once in a blue moon?


116 posted on 11/13/2014 10:37:32 AM PST by Fantasywriter (Any attempt to do forensic work using Internet artifacts is fraught with pitfalls. JoeProbono)
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To: Natufian

Looks like we need to add another item to the ‘marriage doubter’ index:

“Cashill also notes that immigration authorities certainly wondered about an Obama-Dunham marriage. An April 1961 memo notes, “If his USC [United States Citizen] wife tries to petition for [Obama Sr.] make sure an investigation is conducted as to the bona-fide of the marriage.”

Bottom line: There is no primary documentation of a marriage. There is no marriage license. There is no state-issued marriage certificate.

But there is a line in a birth index, correct? A never-disputed, entirely authentic line, no doubt. Just like the birth announcements, listing an address at which neither Obama Sr. or Stanley Ann ever lived. But that’s the usual. I.e.: all HI birth announcements list bogus addresses. It’s just one of those quaint customs so familiar/unique to the Hawaiin Islands.


117 posted on 11/13/2014 11:34:55 AM PST by Fantasywriter (Any attempt to do forensic work using Internet artifacts is fraught with pitfalls. JoeProbono)
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To: Fantasywriter

“I’m not sure the wedding is as well documented as you imagine.”

It is exactly as well documented as I posted; a record of the marriage in the Hawaii Marriage Index and a reference to it in the divorce papers. To understand that point you need to remember two things. Firstly, I’m not claiming that they were married in Hawaii, I’m stating that your assertion that she was living in Kenya is dubious and unsupported by the evidence. Secondly, you stated that there isn’t “one hint of a scrap of a shadow of a tertiary, third-hand hearsay clue that she spent the 9 mos of her pregnancy in HI”, I’ve clearly demonstrated that there is. The fact that you don’t regard it as sufficiently solid is irrelevant.

“Do you believe that one line in a marriage index proves a 9 mos residency?”

Nope. It’s evidence that she was in Hawaii at some point during her pregnancy, nothing more.... but it IS evidence.

I’m not surprised that you don’t want to discuss your claim that she was in Kenya. It’s outlandish at best and flies in the face of both the evidence (everything from cost to inoculations to immigration records) and common sense. No problem, I’m not surprised. I wouldn’t want to discuss something like that in public if I’d made such a claim.


118 posted on 11/13/2014 3:45:56 PM PST by Natufian (t)
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To: Natufian

‘I’m not surprised that you don’t want to discuss your claim that she was in Kenya. It’s outlandish at best and flies in the face of both the evidence (everything from cost to inoculations to immigration records) and common sense. No problem, I’m not surprised. I wouldn’t want to discuss something like that in public if I’d made such a claim.’

That is a classic Stuck on Stupid comment. I (1) covered this in my first post to you, and (2) drew your attention back to that post when you first started down this bogus alley. You either haven’t read my first post, you read it but didn’t understand it, or you understood it but you imagine that if you ignore it long enough and hard enough it will go away.

It’s still there. I suspect you read it but cannot grasp the meaning. I don’t care. Or I should say, I couldn’t care less. Keep on huffing and puffing. Nothing you say will change the facts. But facts, I have noticed, are anathema to anti-birthers. So carry on with your I-can-ignore-reality-if-I-want-to approach. It will get you nowhere.

Now as to the “reported” wedding. This is a linguistic problem. I mean by ‘tertiary’ third-hand info about Stanley-Ann’s presence in HI during the aforementioned time period. You evidently mean, ‘evidence that has been thoroughly discredited’.

That is the problem. A difference of meaning.

Here are the two discrediting pieces of info, in case you missed them:

Bill Ayers, working off of Obama’s notes, described the wedding his way, in Dreams from my Father:

‘”How and when the marriage occurred remains a bit murky, a bill of particulars that I have never quite had the courage to explore. There’s no record of a real wedding, a cake, a ring, a giving away of the bride. No families were in attendance; it’s not even clear that people back in Kansas were informed.”’

Obama’s notes, as presented by Ayers in such a way as to make Obama look as good as possible, reveal there is “no record of a *real* wedding”.

Why did Ayers include such information? It can only be for one reason: there was no record of a wedding. No record of a wedding = no wedding. So Obama was a bastard. Ayers wanted to get out in front of this story, so he painted Obama in the most sympathetic light: a person who knows there is something “murky” about his parents’ ‘not-real wedding’ but who is too timid to investigate exactly what it is. That way, if the bastard-issue surfaced at some point in Obama’s political career, he was covered. Ayers took care of it as best he could. In doing so, it was necessary to reveal there had never been an official wedding, but that was the price he had to pay. Anything else, and Obama wasn’t covered against potential future revelations.

The second piece of discrediting info:

Micelle Obama, speaking to public school kids: ‘His own mother [Stanley Ann], she said at the beginning of her remarks, was “very young and very single when she had him.”’

Michelle Obama was in a position to know, and had no reason to lie. She backs Ayers’ version to the hilt. There was no “real wedding”. Therefore Stanley Ann was “very single” when she gave birth to Obama.

You cannot argue that the notation in the HI marriage index was there all along but that both Obama and Michelle are telling the truth. If, however, the notation was added much later, then Obama and Michelle gave truthful accounts. Since neither of them had any reason to lie in this case, the answer is ‘B’.

[I suppose, being an anti-birther, you will argue that the wedding was “real”, but that either Obama’s mother or his grandparents lied to him. Anti-birthers will argue any piece of rank stupidity when they get desperate. Just to let you know, that ‘argument’ has no basis in fact, and is idiotic on its face. Try again.]


119 posted on 11/14/2014 9:07:39 AM PST by Fantasywriter (Any attempt to do forensic work using Internet artifacts is fraught with pitfalls. JoeProbono)
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To: Fantasywriter

Relax. As I said, it’s not a problem. I understand perfectly. I’d be a little embarrassed as well, I might even make up some excuses for not going there. It’s OK.

On the marriage in Hawaii issue, you seem to be a operating under a misapprehension that I’m saying that the marriage definitely took place there. I’m not and I’ve never made that argument.

I’m merely pointing out that when you said there is no evidence, you were wrong. There is. There are official records n Hawaii that directly refer to it.

Clearly, you’ve decided that these official records aren’t of sufficient solidity to prove the case. Fine. Whatever floats your boat although it seems weird to me that two people would go through a formal divorce if they weren’t ever married - not as weird as claiming she was in Kenya at the time, granted but weird nonetheless.


120 posted on 11/14/2014 9:53:09 AM PST by Natufian (t)
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