Posted on 04/08/2014 5:08:33 PM PDT by Errant
The "blood moons", or so they are called, are a set of eclipses taking place over the next year.
There have been several books written about them; even a DVD or two produced about them.
But, are they what we think they are? If not, is this a gigantic, prophetic, misunderstanding of astronomical proportions?
(Excerpt) Read more at youtube.com ...
Oh, we're laughing all right.
But not at jonno.
He finished exactly what he came to finish that day, the sacrifice of the sinless man
Why was this necessary?
You appear to be a serious person, and this is a serious question.
Hate to tell you, but the world economy is in collapse, and rioting has been occurring throughout europe since the late ‘90s.
Then or now?
You seriously do not realize that Yeshua had to die to pay the blood price fir sin? Your question appears to be one of the most facetious ever posted to this forum.
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Yes, yes, & yes...
That said, a supernatural force set the clock in motion and the coincidental nature for four of these eclipse occurring on consecutive high Sabbaths is pretty astronomical - pardon the pun. :-)
Yes but the fact you can predict it happening kinda takes away from the supernatural nature.
For example: Babies are not a miracle. We know what causes them. Tumors disappearing for no reason are a miracle.
So you say because we know something, means it's not a miracle. I have to disagree with you on that. Because we know what causes babies, doesn't mean we know what caused babies or life, or what put the moon in motion, or even how the forces that keep the moon in motion work, or how it's possible to accurately prophesy events thousands of years into the future. To have these events (i.e., prophesied events) coincide not only with commanded observance days kept for centuries, but also celestial events way into the future, to me is pretty darn miraculous.
A miracle is defined as something that cannot be explained using science (i.e. supernatural)
So far, all we know is the alignment of the planets. We have no idea what will happen if anything.
Ok - now that we’ve established that Christ paid the blood price for sins, help me understand why it is important for Christians to follow the Torah.
Are we to follow the Torah to the letter, or are we to use discernment? And if discernment, what is the criteria for what to observe and what to lay aside?
I for one will not be surprised if something does happen and have a pretty good idea, based on scripture, what it will be. But then I have to agree we can't be 100% certain that this is the time/season spoken of, even though my confidence is high that it is based on a number of indicators.
16. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17. That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
Without Torah there is no knowledge of sin, and without knowledge, we sin and cannot become righteous as we are commanded to do.
Yes, he does indeed expect us to be perfect.
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>> “A miracle is defined as something that cannot be explained using science (i.e. supernatural)” <<
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Where in scripture do we find that definition?
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Interesting Bible you have there.
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Sorry, I meant Timothy, but I wrote Titus.
John 14:12 Verily, verily,, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
In Matt 22:36-40, Jesus was asked: "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments. Matt 22:36-40 (Amp)
It's pretty plain that if Yeshua commanded us to show our love for him by keeping his [Yeshua's] commandments, then to keep the "greatest commandment", we must also keep the Father's commandments.
Are we to follow the Torah to the letter, or are we to use discernment? And if discernment, what is the criteria for what to observe and what to lay aside?
Discernment of course. Most people would do well if they earnestly tried to keep just ten. You know, one can get an idea of what's excepted by our Lord's prayer (Matthew 6:5-14):
...and forgive us our debts...
I don't see an "If" in that line. That means to me it's a given that we're going to "miss the mark", which is the meaning of sinning in Hebrew.
We've twisted the meaning of faith/believe/grace until they no longer have the same meaning to western Christianity as in the past (He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do), much like the more recent use of the word gay. Some of us probably still remember when its meaning was something far different.
Strongs? http://www.e-sword.net
"It's pretty plain that if Yeshua commanded us to show our love for him by keeping his [Yeshua's] commandments, then to keep the "greatest commandment", we must also keep the Father's commandments."
There is a tendency in the heart of man (a sin nature) to perform our righteousness - for the purpose of our justification. This is the "stumbling block" of Christianity - that Jesus paid the price and there is nothing additional you can do to make a right relationship with God. Moreover, if our good works (our filthy rags) make God happy with us, then Christ has died in vain.
I find it instructive that when asked about the law, Christ emphasizes 1) Love God with all your heart 2) love your neighbor as yourself.
Please note that both of these are matters of the heart. And it is with the heart that Christ give us the most instruction, almost his entire emphasis.
To wit: don't pray on the street corner, don't allow lust to take hold, don't be angry with your brother, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you. These matters of the heart are not found in the Torah, and yet these are what Christ emphasized - and one could argue that these are the heart of the Torah.
“Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”
This is the new covenant about which Christ was teaching - God changing our hearts, creating new beings.
Yes, the Torah instructs us as to the Nature of God, and what our attitude should be - relative to his holiness. But the requirements of the the law: the observances, ceremonies, washings, sacrifices, have been met - by Christ.
Am I saying the law is unimportant? May it never be so. But I believe Christ revealed his heart regarding the law when he said to Peter (John 13): "Those who have had a bath need only to wash their feet; their whole body is clean."
“Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”
The above could very well be talking about events "after those days" of the second coming.
All in all, I think we are close in our views in general. We will probably grow even closer in our beliefs as we progress in each of our studies of scripture. I appreciate the opportunity to have this discussion with you and I certainly agree with your choice in posting this verse from John:
(John 13): "Those who have had a bath need only to wash their feet; their whole body is clean."
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