We may be more like the Roman Republic in the first century BCE.
The problem with the stupid Rome analogies is that they are made by people with precisely zero knowledge of Roman history.
Particularly when it’s the “moral decay” stuff. The Western Roman Empire didn’t collapse until after it went Christian (which Gibbons asserts is one of the main causes of the decline, though obviously that’s highly disputed.) But during Rome’s decline there were many Roman authors blaming it on abandoning the traditional Pagan gods.
But I will say two things:
1) Rome is an example of a great world power that did decline and which did break apart and fall away. This fate could also happen to us.
2) The Classical world of Greece and Rome brought civilization to many places in the world and elevated millions of people. When that Classical world declined and faded, there were long-lasting repercussions. One could argue that the world today is still dealing with the divisions caused by the ends of the Eastern and Western Roman empires.
If America, and the ideals of America, were to fade away, I think it would take a thousand years for humanity to recover from the cultural blow.
What transpired on 9/11 wasn't just a terrorist attack.
True. The Romans weren’t continually doped up on the hallucinogens of mass media.
Where is this incessant déjà vu coming from?
And why do I see Caligula, Tiberius, Livia, Nero, and Commodus every time I turn on the TV set?
And why do I suddenly understand Roman decadence so clearly? in all its frustration and horror? its incredibility suddenly credible?
And why do the words of William Faulkner (Absalom! Absalon!), Ovid, Gibbon, and Robert Graves keep ringing in my ears?
And why do I have this unsettling feeling that you're whistling in the dark?
Where is this incessant déjà vu coming from?
And why do I see Caligula, Tiberius, Livia, Nero, and Commodus every time I turn on the TV set?
And why do I suddenly understand Roman decadence so clearly? in all its frustration and horror? its incredibility suddenly credible?
And why do the words of William Faulkner (Absalom! Absalon!), Ovid, Gibbon, and Robert Graves keep ringing in my ears?
And why do I have this unsettling feeling that you're whistling in the dark?
And why does the once heroic American electorate resemble the Roman Mob more and more each day?
The difference between the US and Rome is that our Vandals are within, not without. God help us all the day that the gub'mint checks aren't mailed and the EBT cards stop working.
No metaphor is perfect.
A Roman one that applies is the concept of “Bread and Circuses” - rising to power by promising stuff to the public.
Getting a free ride (by not paying tax, etc.) and the promise of unhindered sex is a modern equivalent.
Here’s a quote from the Roman satirist Juvenal, that I pulled from wiki:
“Already long ago, from when we sold our vote to no man, the People have abdicated our duties; for the People who once upon a time handed out military command, high civil office, legions — everything, now restrains itself and anxiously hopes for just two things: bread and circuses”
Worth repeating -- even if only for the responses I'll get claiming that it's not true and that we don't make anything anymore.
I would say that the correct analogy is the fall of the Roman REPUBLIC.
When the Republic was strong Rome was about duty and honor. To qualify for the lowest elected office, a candidate was required to have spent ten years in the legions. Since Rome was a small entity surrounded by (more?) powerful enemies, ten years would make any candidate a combat veteran - a man who had risked his life for Rome. The candidate wore a white toga to his examination by Roman leaders. His bow arm was bare, so they could see the battle scars won in Rome’s defense. Assuming the candidate was elected to Quaestor, and assuming he advanced to and executed each office in succession, he could be Consul in ten more years. The two Consuls were not only the highest office in the Roman government, each commanded half the armies of Rome. After a successful Consulship, one became Senator for life.
After the third Punic War, and the defeat of Philip V of Macedon, Rome had no rivals. All the wealth of the Ancient world (Mediterranean) poured into Rome, and she enjoyed untold wealth and splendor. These wealthy Romans adopted the philosophies of the conquered peoples (largely Greek) because duty and honor has less appeal than indolent opulence. In time, these Roman leaders were unwilling to risk their sons in the manner of the ancient Romans. Men were raised up to the highest levels based upon wealth and bribery, rather than merit. As the mix of Roman Senators/leaders became more corrupt, self-centered, and willing to sell out the interests of Rome for personal gain, the political situation grew less stable. The average citizen lost confidence in his government, and men such as Marius, Sulla, and Caesar established dictatorships in defiance of Roman law. Each dictator destabilized the system a little more, but the real issue lay with broken trust to the people.
In Julius Caesar, the people saw that a benevolent dictator who placed the interests of Rome first might provide better governance than a corrupt hoard of self-serving Senators. By the time the Civil Wars had raged for twenty years, with Rome’s enemies anticipating her rapid demise, Octavian/Augustus was largely welcomed as a Savior of Rome. Augustus was wise enough to keep much of the machinery of the Republic in place, (the part that functioned), and many Romans could live in the blissful delusion that the Republic still lived.
This is where the US is now, IMHO. The rule of law is being overthrown and the Constitution defeated. We will come out of it with something that resembles a Republic in form, but the actual power will reside in some vehicle other than ‘We the People’.
Probably not can also mean probably yes.
Your observations may have merit but let me ask if you see any parallels with this man’s observation.
"The Roman Republic fell, not because of the ambition of Caesar or Augustus, but because it had already long ceased to be in any real sense a republic at all.
When the sturdy Roman plebeian, who lived by his own labor, who voted without reward according to his own convictions, and who with his fellows formed in war the terrible Roman legion, had been changed into an idle creature who craved nothing in life save the gratification of a thirst for vapid excitement, who was fed by the state, and who directly or indirectly sold his vote to the highest bidder, then the end of the Republic was at hand, and nothing could save it.
The laws were the same as they had been, but the people behind the laws had changed, and so the laws counted for nothing.”
This observation is also applicable today.
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws." - Tacitus, Roman Senator and Historian (A.D. c.56 - c. 115)
Tacitus (c. 56/57-ca. 125) was a Roman orator and historian. In a life that spanned the reigns of the Flavian emperors and of Trajan and Hadrian, he played a part in the public life of Rome and became its greatest historian.
Obviously Rome, Britannia, and the USA may not share the exact route, but the overall direction is similar enough for them to all wind up at the same destination?
But the most obvious similarity the USA shares with Rome is the one this article conspicuously omits, immigration/emigration. In fact he seeks to spike the entire topic with one sentence:
"The obvious direction from being #1 is becoming #2, but that doesn’t mean the American society is going to be overrun by vandals overnight to the point where it becomes a mere shadow of what it once was."This despite the fact the Rome was "peacefully" overrun by migrating foreign tribes centuries before those same people rose up in arms to topple it. Despite the fact that Roman politicians, either ignored the invasion or even sold off Roman citizenship to those invaders for their own gain.
The author would have us close our eyes to the fact that that our USA is being similarly overrun by tribes of millions of illegals, while American politician either ignore the invasion or even sell off citizenship or alternative legal status, for their own gain.
Ha! On an historical scale of time, the massive invasion of the USA by illegals over the last 30 years is in fact "OVERNIGHT!"
"... to the point where it becomes a mere shadow of what it once was."
Ha! The magnitude of the numbers and the changes caused and soon to be caused by the tens of millions of illegals - multiplied many fold by those illegals who have been allowed to legalize and bring in other family and their anchor babies - is in fact "to a point" unheard of since the Barbarians overrun Rome.
Not like Rome... More like GREECE!
America is on the fast track to self destruction and the government is in the driver’s seat. Yes, Hussein is fiddling while we burn.
Rome was abandoned by Constantine, who had the foresight to move the capital, the wealth, and the defenses to Constantinolple. Rome itself was nothing but a hollow shell after that. The Roman Empire didn’t really fall, it just moved. The fall of the empire actually occurred in the 1400s and the cause was the invention of the cannon, making Constantinople’s walls and defenses obsolete.
I have to take exception to a few points. If your empire does a good job of making the people under it happy it’s extension makes it stronger , not weaker. It’s the people inside the empire that defend it’s borders. If you double the radius of the empire the length the border doubles but the area increases by 4. So you now have twice as many people available to defend any length of border. The trick is making the conquered better off than they were before and a Republic does that better than a dictatorship.
Romes real death came when Caesar crossed the Rubicon. From then on it was just a normal dictatorship and/or mob rule. The productive become less and less everyday and the looters more and more. It got so bad in the end people were voluntarily making themselves slaves so they were no longer subject to the confiscatory taxes. This is a quite a common way for most empires to die and the United States did something similar when it passed an income tax with no boundaries. Apples and oranges indeed! How do you like them apples?
While the western Roman Empire collapsed, the eastern Roman Empire continued on for quite a while, and had an event, called the Nika riots, with some eerie parallels to America today.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nika_riots
To begin with, Constantinople had four political faction-sports teams-street gangs. They called themselves (first parallel), the Blues, the Greens, the Reds, and the Whites.
I like to think of them, in order, as the Democrat party, the radical left, the Republican party, and conservatives.
In any event, the Blues were the strongest faction, and supported by Emperor Justinian I, who while an able administrator, was not a decisive leader.
The problems began in earnest after a chariot race, in which the Blues and the Greens lost, so decided to riot. Some innocent people were killed in this riot, so some of the Blue and Green leaders were arrested for murder.
Some of these leaders were hanged, but a Blue and a Green escaped and took refuge in a church surrounded by an angry mob. Justinian was very busy with peace negotiations with the Persians (another parallel), but offered to commute their sentences to life imprisonment.
Wanting them to be released entirely, the Blues and Greens rioted, with eventually half the city being burned. Along with a treacherous senate (another parallel), that took the opportunity to try and dethrone Justinian and name a new Emperor, this about broke Justinian’s spirit, and he was prepared to flee, followed by the likely collapse of the eastern empire.
Enter the Empress Theodora, who was made of sterner stuff. She had been raised on the street and was a lot tougher than Justinian. After she settled him down, the two concocted a plot to save their nation.
They called for a peace meeting to be held at the Hippodrome with both the Blue and Green faction, to discuss terms. The Blues and Greens agreed, with the idea of crowning the new emperor there instead of talking peace.
Then a well liked and trusted head slave was sent to the Hippodrome with a large bag of gold for the Blue leaders, that when he gave it to them, reminded them that Justinian had always supported their faction. They took the hint, and to a man, all the Blues exited, leaving the somewhat puzzled Greens behind.
The Greens then decided that “fine, so we’ll have all the power, then”. An unwise decision, as by then the Hippodrome had been surrounded by two large units of soldiers, each led by a loyal general.
As Theodora had imagined, the soldiers entered the Hippodrome and killed every radical Green inside. And, by doing so, extended the life of the eastern empire by another 200 years.
Theodora was eventually proclaimed a Saint in the Orthodox church. Well deserved.
We are in decline as a direct result of government, at every level.