Posted on 05/01/2011 7:24:18 AM PDT by Ethan Clive Osgoode
The squabble between Darwin lobbyists who openly hate religion and those who only quietly disdain it grows ever more personal, bitter and pathetic. On one side, evangelizing New or "Gnu" (ha ha) Atheists like Jerry Coyne and his acolytes at Why Evolution Is True. Dr. Coyne is a biologist who teaches and ostensibly researches at the University of Chicago but has a heck of a lot of free time on his hands for blogging and posting pictures of cute cats.
On the other side, so-called accommodationists like the crowd at the National Center for Science Education, who attack the New Atheists for the political offense of being rude to religious believers and supposedly messing up the alliance between religious and irreligious Darwinists.
I say "supposedly" because there's no evidence any substantial body of opinion is actually being changed on religion or evolution by anything the open haters or the quiet disdainers say. Everyone seems to seriously think they're either going to defeat religion, or merely "creationism," or both by blogging for an audience of fellow Darwinists.
Want to see what I mean? This is all pretty strictly a battle of stinkbugs in a bottle. Try to follow it without getting a headache.
Coyne recently drew excited applause from fellow biologist-atheist-blogger PZ Myers for Coyne's "open letter" (published on his blog) to the NCSE and its British equivalent, the British Centre for Science Education. In the letter, Coyne took umbrage at criticism of the New Atheists, mostly on blogs, emanating from the two accommodationist organizations. He vowed that,
We will continue to answer the misguided attacks [on the New Atheists] by people like Josh Rosenau, Roger Stanyard, and Nick Matzke so long as they keep mounting those attacks.Like the NCSE, the BCSE seeks to pump up Darwin in the public mind without scaring religious people. This guy called Stanyard at the BCSE complains of losing a night's sleep over the nastiness of the rhetoric on Coyne's blog. Coyne in turn complained that Stanyard complained that a blog commenter complained that Nick Matzke, formerly of the NCSE, is like "vermin." Coyne also hit out at blogger Jason Rosenhouse for an "epic"-length blog post complaining of New Atheist "incivility." In the blog, Rosenhouse, who teaches math at James Madison University, wrote an update about how he had revised an insulting comment about the NCSE's Josh Rosenau that he, Rosenhouse, made in a previous version of the post.
That last bit briefly confused me. In occasionally skimming the writings of Jason Rosenhouse and Josh Rosenau in the past, I realized now I had been assuming they were the same person. They are not!
It goes on and on. In the course of his own blog post, Professor Coyne disavowed name-calling and berated Stanyard (remember him? The British guy) for "glomming onto" the Matzke-vermin insult like "white on rice, or Kwok on a Leica." What's a Kwok? Not a what but a who -- John Kwok, presumably a pseudonym, one of the most tirelessly obsessive commenters on Darwinist blog sites. Besides lashing at intelligent design, he often writes of his interest in photographic gear such as a camera by Leica. I have the impression that Kwok irritates even fellow Darwinists.
There's no need to keep all the names straight in your head. I certainly can't. I'm only taking your time, recounting just a small part of one confused exchange, to illustrate the culture of these Darwinists who write so impassionedly about religion, whether for abolishing it or befriending it. Writes Coyne in reply to Stanyard,
I'd suggest, then, that you lay off telling us what to do until you've read about our goals. The fact is that we'll always be fighting creationism until religion goes away, and when it does the fight will be over, as it is in Scandinavia.A skeptic might suggest that turning America into Scandinavia, as far as religion goes, is an outsized goal, more like a delusion, for this group as they sit hunched over their computers shooting intemperate comments back and forth at each other all day. Or in poor Stanyard's case, all night.
There's a feverish, terrarium-like and oxygen-starved quality to this world of online Darwinists and atheists. It could only be sustained by the isolation of the Internet. They don't seem to realize that the public accepts Darwinism to the extent it does -- which is not much -- primarily because of what William James would call the sheer, simple "prestige" that the opinion grants. Arguments and evidence have little to do with it.
The prestige of Darwinism is not going to be affected by how the battle between Jerry Coyne and the NCSE turns out. New Atheist arguments are hobbled by the same isolation from what people think and feel. I have not yet read anything by any of these gentlemen or ladies, whether the open haters or the quiet disdainers, that conveys anything like a real comprehension of religious feeling or thought.
Even as they fight over the most effective way to relate to "religion," the open atheists and the accomodationists speak of an abstraction, a cartoon, that no actual religious person would recognize. No one is going to be persuaded if he doesn't already wish to be persuaded for other personal reasons. No faith is under threat from the likes of Jerry Coyne.
You on the other hand stated that I didn't know what a "Tribe" was.
Obviously you were lying when you implied that I said "Tribe" not clan.
There is no evidence of a clan being cited - evidence points to geography lg -
No the evidence "Bethlehem Ephratah" clearly points to lineage. And of course if you put the scripture in context it has nothing to do with Christ.
Don't you know that was written AFTER the Lazurus story??
Tsk...
Tsk...
Oh so after Lazurus people don't die? Who would have thought? The Bible really has predictive power doesn't it? Do I need the sarcasm tag?
Matthew 24:1-2
Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings.
Do you see all these things? he asked. Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.
Your strawman is falling apart.
It DOES?
O...
K...
Sex creates life Cronos. The joining of the two DNA strands creates new life. It is actually pretty simple.
life and birth does not necessarily entail creation of the intangible does it? It entails the creation of the tangible
That depends, is the wavefunction collapse tangible? It depends on the outcome, obviously. Like I said before, consciousness is a result of Quantum Tunneling at the synapses.
MAYBE???
possibly?
Your 'evidence' requirement is SLIPPPING!
SURE it is!
What you have stated is not a Christian view. Since you are not Christian, you can hold that view. I disagree with that view
Correct. The Christian view is that everyone is damned unless saved by the Blood of Christ. You are free to believe that if you like. Anyone can believe in silly Pagan rituals, isn't that the definition of an ignoramus?
Well, Alice; how was your trip in the rabbit hole?
Did you have red herring for lunch?
;^)
At it's most remote locations; you'll find FOAM.
Yes. The difference is the first person is stupid and the second person is ignorant.
But the person who is capable of learning geometry and doesn't is an ignoramus.
That wasn't so hard was it?
"Put more butter on the popcorn honey; it's gonna be a LONG night!"
Do you see all these things? he asked. Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.
"All these things" means everything, buildings too. But it also means there foundations, the walls, (ever been to the wailing wall?), etc. etc.
You would be much better served viewing the Bible as metaphorical stories, like Aesop's fables. It is more enlightening that way.
He's still upset about his darling's dog; I guess.
Son; this could be the very basis for you starting your OWN religion!
It DOES?
Yes it does. Not to be rude, but do you know what DNA is Elsie? Since you are a transgender person, I am curious, how many Chromosomes do you have?
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