Posted on 05/01/2011 7:24:18 AM PDT by Ethan Clive Osgoode
The squabble between Darwin lobbyists who openly hate religion and those who only quietly disdain it grows ever more personal, bitter and pathetic. On one side, evangelizing New or "Gnu" (ha ha) Atheists like Jerry Coyne and his acolytes at Why Evolution Is True. Dr. Coyne is a biologist who teaches and ostensibly researches at the University of Chicago but has a heck of a lot of free time on his hands for blogging and posting pictures of cute cats.
On the other side, so-called accommodationists like the crowd at the National Center for Science Education, who attack the New Atheists for the political offense of being rude to religious believers and supposedly messing up the alliance between religious and irreligious Darwinists.
I say "supposedly" because there's no evidence any substantial body of opinion is actually being changed on religion or evolution by anything the open haters or the quiet disdainers say. Everyone seems to seriously think they're either going to defeat religion, or merely "creationism," or both by blogging for an audience of fellow Darwinists.
Want to see what I mean? This is all pretty strictly a battle of stinkbugs in a bottle. Try to follow it without getting a headache.
Coyne recently drew excited applause from fellow biologist-atheist-blogger PZ Myers for Coyne's "open letter" (published on his blog) to the NCSE and its British equivalent, the British Centre for Science Education. In the letter, Coyne took umbrage at criticism of the New Atheists, mostly on blogs, emanating from the two accommodationist organizations. He vowed that,
We will continue to answer the misguided attacks [on the New Atheists] by people like Josh Rosenau, Roger Stanyard, and Nick Matzke so long as they keep mounting those attacks.Like the NCSE, the BCSE seeks to pump up Darwin in the public mind without scaring religious people. This guy called Stanyard at the BCSE complains of losing a night's sleep over the nastiness of the rhetoric on Coyne's blog. Coyne in turn complained that Stanyard complained that a blog commenter complained that Nick Matzke, formerly of the NCSE, is like "vermin." Coyne also hit out at blogger Jason Rosenhouse for an "epic"-length blog post complaining of New Atheist "incivility." In the blog, Rosenhouse, who teaches math at James Madison University, wrote an update about how he had revised an insulting comment about the NCSE's Josh Rosenau that he, Rosenhouse, made in a previous version of the post.
That last bit briefly confused me. In occasionally skimming the writings of Jason Rosenhouse and Josh Rosenau in the past, I realized now I had been assuming they were the same person. They are not!
It goes on and on. In the course of his own blog post, Professor Coyne disavowed name-calling and berated Stanyard (remember him? The British guy) for "glomming onto" the Matzke-vermin insult like "white on rice, or Kwok on a Leica." What's a Kwok? Not a what but a who -- John Kwok, presumably a pseudonym, one of the most tirelessly obsessive commenters on Darwinist blog sites. Besides lashing at intelligent design, he often writes of his interest in photographic gear such as a camera by Leica. I have the impression that Kwok irritates even fellow Darwinists.
There's no need to keep all the names straight in your head. I certainly can't. I'm only taking your time, recounting just a small part of one confused exchange, to illustrate the culture of these Darwinists who write so impassionedly about religion, whether for abolishing it or befriending it. Writes Coyne in reply to Stanyard,
I'd suggest, then, that you lay off telling us what to do until you've read about our goals. The fact is that we'll always be fighting creationism until religion goes away, and when it does the fight will be over, as it is in Scandinavia.A skeptic might suggest that turning America into Scandinavia, as far as religion goes, is an outsized goal, more like a delusion, for this group as they sit hunched over their computers shooting intemperate comments back and forth at each other all day. Or in poor Stanyard's case, all night.
There's a feverish, terrarium-like and oxygen-starved quality to this world of online Darwinists and atheists. It could only be sustained by the isolation of the Internet. They don't seem to realize that the public accepts Darwinism to the extent it does -- which is not much -- primarily because of what William James would call the sheer, simple "prestige" that the opinion grants. Arguments and evidence have little to do with it.
The prestige of Darwinism is not going to be affected by how the battle between Jerry Coyne and the NCSE turns out. New Atheist arguments are hobbled by the same isolation from what people think and feel. I have not yet read anything by any of these gentlemen or ladies, whether the open haters or the quiet disdainers, that conveys anything like a real comprehension of religious feeling or thought.
Even as they fight over the most effective way to relate to "religion," the open atheists and the accomodationists speak of an abstraction, a cartoon, that no actual religious person would recognize. No one is going to be persuaded if he doesn't already wish to be persuaded for other personal reasons. No faith is under threat from the likes of Jerry Coyne.
Why exactly is it a misnomer? It is not another term for an ignoramus who is a person who just "don't get it". I'm talking about here of people who never had the opportunity to know.
There IS a difference between someone who can't understand Euclidean geometry and someone who's never had the opportunity to learn about this
Why, because I won't cow tow to your 'superior' atheist so-called "intellect"? The borg are better at it than you are james.
You not only refuse to acknowledge your errors, you continue to commit them, even when you are shown why you are wrong (eg.: asking me to prove a negative).
Ah, waxing 0bamaesque (or would that be clintonesque). On you part you refuse to acknowledge that your arguments are flawed because of incorrect definitions, applications and even outright misrepresentations.
Then you whine about me asking you to support your BELIEF that there is no God. Why can't you prove your BELIEF james and why is it off limits for you to support your BELIEF? Living a contradiction? No, in reality it is to keep from having to face that reality in life staring into that black hole you've created for yourself james.
You make false accusations and don’t have the humility to retract them when you’re shown to be wrong. You bear false witness, without shame.
OH my, hurling insults at me again - so sad.
Your incapacity to comprehend basic sentences, follow intent from prior comments, understand simple frameworks of logic, and other limitations show that you are incapable of arguing with. You are unwilling to recognise the gist of the arguments, and instead produce tangents as a deviation.
You really shouldn't talk about yourself in that manner james, not good for your ego.
I hope that others perusing through this thread enjoy just as much!
They'd probably be bored stiff of you pontificating after the first few.
Kosta: You know how I feel about that: that's his belief, and that's fine with me. But he quotes from the NT as if he were a Christian and converses with Christians on FR as if he were one.
Yet, very few seem to realize that he denies Jesus' divinity AND resurrection (as you pointed out), and says that he is a child of the Most High. Or at least very few of the Christians who correspond with him seem to mind, which is even more puzzling!
well, there is a wide gap between an agnostic and an athiest and an evangelical athiest.
So when are you checking yourself in?
Pnsm doesn't believe that Jesus Christ rose from the dead or is God
He's not a Christian and you're being misled by him.
Your inane babble that it didn't matter was enjoyable to expose - once again show us all your superior intellect and show where a male gamete was used as the receptor to the nucleus james (crickets).
Presently no screen name pretends to be Christian and pretends to be American, yet says things like Jesus Christ was persecuted and died - that is the only focus for a Christian
only a Moslem or another who denies Christ was God would forget that for a Christian, the fact that Jesus Christ died, ROSE FROM THE DEAD and ascended into Heaven is the focus. Not just a dead Christ
I realise that it is difficult for the non-Christians like presently no-no to acknowledge that, it is the central mystery of our Christian faith which is not only that Christ DIED, but more importantly that HE TRIUMPHED OVER DEATH, He rose again from the dead, He IS/WAS/will always be GOD
Non-Christians cannot acknowledge this fact of Jesus's resurrection and that Jesus Christ is God.
Come on, pnsm, admit it, you don't believe Jesus Christ is God, do you?
Which cult do you belong to in any case?
Why don't you come out and be honest and admit you're not Christian and you don't believe Christ rose from the dead and is God?
When you ask a Christian such as myself (or any Catholic or Lutheran or Presbyterian or Pentecostal or Baptist) questions like do you believe in
They answer yes. Now I have asked you before, but oh, have been told that asking these are "personal" questions ---hmmmm... what have you got to hide?
i really don't care why you worship Allah, that's your problem, just stop pretending to be something you are not.
At least an agnostic that is honest enough to say he doubts. That's better than a non-Christian like you pretending to be Christian
Then why do YOU stick your nose into Christian business?
Kosta "doubts" -- not denies. At least he's honest enough to admit what he does/doesn't believe or is unsure of, rather than some folks....
And yet JESUS IS GOD... get that into your thick skull. Jesus Christ, the WORD of God, IS GOD. Not just a prophet..
That’s the problem with engaging with someone who uses those techniques.
No matter what you say, it will be wrong, and for every false accusation you deny, another three will be made up.
You could spend the rest of your life trying to disprove all the nonsense some people make up about you and all they’ll accomplish is having you run in circles like a dog chasing its tail, answering an ever increasing list of absurd demands, while they sit back and laugh at you.
And they pretend that they don’t get why you don’t play.
They’re total trolls.
The can accuse all they want, in my book. I know the truth and I know that I’ve stated on the forum where I stand on each of those issues. Anyone who wishes can go back and find the answer to the questions they are asking. It’s in my posting history.
But they are not going to manipulate and control my life in such a manner, and that’s all they’re trying to do. If they can keep you preoccupied with such drivel, it keeps you from being effective in spreading the truth of the Gospel. They’re Satan’s sock puppets.
Consider the source.
ABSOLUTELY INDEED.
Case in point, the last few pages of these threads:
Maybe from at least #1700 on . . . on this one:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2727696/posts?page=1989#1989
Though to some degree—it’s true any time I post much significantly or even just remind the RC’s of say their
ISHTAR-MARY GODDESS . . .
or some other of their outrageousnesses—even in just a one sentence post. LOL.
It’s fascinating how Jerk-y some can be over so little.
However, that doesn’t mean I’m fascinated enough to read more than a few of their posts! LOL.
This thread, too.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2687628/posts?page=113#113
has seen the same sorts of absurdities and assaultiveness.
And the worst . . . anything they accuse a Proddy of . . .
there’s far worse examples in the Vatican Cult!
And they act like hypocrisy is a fruit of Holy Spirit. Amazing.
Well put.
Your inane babble that it didn't matter was enjoyable to expose - once again show us all your superior intellect and show where a male gamete was used as the receptor to the nucleus...
LOL, It didn't matter to the argument about the clone's individuality and its "soul" is what I meant, Genius, not about whether they matter in the process of cloning itself (which I wasn't interested in, in this context, as it has no relevance to the subject at hand, and which you used as an obfuscation, as you've been doing all this while). It was hilarious to catch you attempting this diversion and claiming that I have specified somewhere what gamete I was referring to, when I used that word. Your trick is out in the public eye, for good laughs for free.
Thanks for the laughs, though. Replies to every accusation of yours has been addressed in my earlier comments. One only needs look at them, to know what my actual arguments were.
Three places you saw in your lazy excuse of a search where I called for, among other things, banning Islam and nuking the Kaabah, and you want to pretend that I am a fan of this mad cult. ROFLMAO! If only I could send you an audio file of my guffaws...
*CHUCKLES*
Have fun!
duuuh, Moslem taqqiyah presently no screen name doesn't realise it's a "Bloggers and Personal" thread. Why don't you admit which cult you belong to, pnsm?
-- they don't care, Kosta...
Thanks. No I didn’t but that makes sense - idolatry for starters.
Thanks. No I didn’t but that makes sense - idolatry for starters. Mythology goes hand in hand with man made teachings. No wonder there is no desire for Truth.
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