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Economic Collapse – Martial Law – 24 Experts Warn of 2010 Meltdown
Morning Liberty ^ | May 15, 2010

Posted on 05/27/2010 3:15:55 PM PDT by Fight4Freedom1

Wow...this is pretty sobering................

Predictions For The Rest Of 2010

Bob Chapman

First 6 months of 2010, Americans will continue to live in the 'unreality'…the period between July and October is when the financial fireworks will begin. The Fed will act unilaterally for its own survival irrespective of any political implications …(source is from insider at FED meetings). In the last quarter of the year we could even see Martial law, which is more likely for the first 6 months of 2011. The FDIC will collapse in September 2010. Commercial real estate is set to implode in 2010. Wall Street believes there is a 100% chance of crash in bond market, especially municipals sometime during 2010. The dollar will be devalued by the end of 2010.

Gerald Celente

Terrorist attacks and the "Crash of 2010". 40% devaluation at first = the greatest depression, worse than the Great Depression.

Igor Panarin

In the summer of 1998, based on classified data about the state of the U.S. economy and society supplied to him by fellow FAPSI analysts, Panarin forecast the probable disintegration of the USA into six parts in 2010 (at the end of June – start of July 2010, as he specified on 10 December 2000

Neithercorps

Have projected that the third and final stage of the economic collapse will begin sometime in 2010. Barring some kind of financial miracle, or the complete dissolution of the Federal Reserve, a snowballing implosion should become visible by the end of this year. The behavior of the Fed, along with that of the IMF seems to suggest that they are preparing for a focused collapse, peaking within weeks or months instead of years, and the most certain fall of the dollar.

Webbots

July and onward things get very strange. Revolution. Dollar dead by November 2010.

LEAP 20/20

2010 Outlook from a group of 25 European Economists with a 90% accuracy rating- We anticipate a sudden intensification of the crisis in the second half of 2010, caused by a double effect of a catching up of events which were temporarily « frozen » in the second half of 2009 and the impossibility of maintaining the palliative remedies of past years. There is a perfect (economic) storm coming within the global financial markets and inevitable pressure on interest rates in the U.S. The injection of zero-cost money into the Western banking system has failed to restart the economy. Despite zero-cost money, the system has stalled. It is slowly rolling over into the next big down wave, which in Elliott Wave terminology will be Super Cycle Wave Three, or in common language, "THE BIG ONE, WHERE WE ALL GO OVER THE FALLS TOGETHER."

Joseph Meyer

Forecasts on the economy. He sees the real estate market continuing to decline, and advised people to invest in precious metals and commodities, as well as keeping cash at home in a safe place in case of bank closures. The stock market, after peaking in March or April (around 10,850), will fall all the way down to somewhere between 2450 and 4125 during the next leg down.

Harry Dent (investor)

A very likely second crash by late 2010. The coming depression (starts around the summer of 2010). Dent sees the stock market–currently benefiting from upward momentum and peppier economic activity–headed for a very brief and pleasant run that could lift the Dow to the 10,700-11,500 range from its current level of about 10.090. But then, he sees the market running into a stone wall, which will be followed by a nasty stock market decline (starting in early March to late April) that could drive down the Dow later this year to 3,000-5,000, with his best guess about 3,800.

Richard Russell (Market Expert)

(from 2/3/10) says the bear market rally is in the process of breaking up and panic is on the way. He sees a full correction of the entire rise from the 2002 low of 7,286 to the bull market high of 14,164.53 set on October 9, 2007. The halfway level of retracement was 10,725. The total retracement was to 6,547.05 on March 9, 2009. He now sees the Dow falling to 7,286 and if that level does not hold, “I see it sinking to its 1980-82 area low of Dow 1,000.” The current action is the worst he has ever seen. (Bob Chapman says for Russell to make such a startling statement is unusual because he never cries wolf and is almost never wrong)

Niño Becerra (Professor of Economics)

Predicted in July 2007 that what was going to happen was that by mid 2010 there is going to be a crisis only comparable to the one in 1929. From October 2009 to May 2010 people will begin to see things are not working out the way the government thought. In May of 2010, the crisis starts with all its force and continues and strengthens throughout 2011. He accurately predicted the current recession and market crash to the month.

Lyndon Larouche

The crisis is accelerating and will become worse week by week until the whole system grinds into a collapse, likely sometime this year. And when it does, it will be the greatest collapse since the fall of the Roman Empire.

WALL STREET JOURNAL- (2/2010)

"You are witnessing a fundamental breakdown of the American dream, a systemic breakdown of our democracy and our capitalism, a breakdown driven by the blind insatiable greed of Wall Street: Dysfunctional government, insane markets, economy on the brink. Multiply that many times over and see a world in total disarray. Ignore it now, tomorrow will be too late."

Eric deCarbonnel

There is no precedence for the panic and chaos that will occur in 2010. The global food supply/demand picture has NEVER been so out of balance. The 2010 food crisis will rearrange economic, financial, and political order of the world, and those who aren’t prepared will suffer terrible losses…As the dollar loses most of its value, America's savings will be wiped out. The US service economy will disintegrate as consumer spending in real terms (ie: gold or other stable currencies) drops like a rock, bringing unemployment to levels exceeding the great depression. Public health services/programs will be cut back, as individuals will have no savings/credit/income to pay for medical care. Value of most investments will be wiped out. The US debt markets will freeze again, this time permanently. There will be no buyers except at the most drastic of firesale prices, and inflation will wipe away value before credit markets have any chance at recovery. The panic in 2010 will see the majority of derivatives end up worthless. Since global derivatives markets operate on the assumption of the continued stable value of the dollar and short term US debt, using derivatives to bet against the dollar is NOT a good idea. The panic in 2010 will see the majority of derivatives end up worthless. The dollar's collapse will rob US consumers of all purchasing power, and any investment depend on US consumption will lose most of its value.

Alpha-Omega Report (Trends Forecast)

Going into 2010, the trends seemed to lead nowhere or towards oblivion. Geo-politically, the Middle East was and is trending towards some sort of military clash, most likely by mid-year, but perhaps sooner…At the moment, it seems 2010 is shaping up to be a year of absolute chaos. We see trends for war between Israel and her neighbors that will shake every facet of human activity…In the event of war, we see all other societal trends being thoroughly disrupted…Iran will most likely shut off the flow of oil from the Persian Gulf. This will have immense consequences for the world’s economy. Oil prices will skyrocket into the stratosphere and become so expensive that world’s economies will collapse..There are also trend indicators along economic lines that point to the potential for a total meltdown of the world’s financial system with major crisis points developing with the change of each quarter of the year. 2010 could be a meltdown year for the world’s economy, regardless of what goes on in the Middle East.

Robin Landry (Market Expert)

I believe we are headed to new market highs between 10780-11241 over the next few months. The most likely time frame for the top is the April-May area. Remember the evidence IMHO still says we are in a bear market rally with a major decline to follow once this rally ends.

John P. Hussman, Ph.D.

In my estimation, there is still close to an 80% probability (Bayes' Rule) that a second market plunge and economic downturn will unfold during 2010.

Robert Prechter

Founder of Elliott Wave International, implores retail investors stay away from the markets… for now. Prechter, who was bullish near the lows in March 2009, now says the stock market “is in a topping area, “predicting another crash in 2010 that will bring stocks below the 2009 low. His word to the wise, “be patient, don’t rush it” keep your money in cash and cash equivalents.

Richard Mogey

Current Research Director at the Foundation for the Study of Cycles- Because of a convergence of numerous cycles all at once, the stock market may go up for a little while, but will crash in 2010 and reach all-time lows late 2012. Mogey says that the 2008 crash was nothing compared to the coming crash. Gold may correct in 2009, but will go up in 2010 and peak in 2011. Silver will follow gold.

James Howard Kunstler (January 2010)

The economy as we’ve known it simply can’t go on, which James Howard Kunstler has been saying all along. The shenanigans with stimulus and bailouts will just compound the central problem with debt. There’s not much longer to go before the whole thing collapses and dies. Six Months to Live- The economy that is. Especially the part that consists of swapping paper certificates. That’s the buzz I’ve gotten the first two weeks of 2010.

Peter Schiff (3/13/2010)

"In my opinion, the market is now perfectly positioned for a massive dollar sell-off. The fundamentals for the dollar in 2010 are so much worse than they were in 2008 that it is hard to imagine a reason for people to keep buying once a modicum of political and monetary stability can be restored in Europe. In fact, the euro has recently stabilized. My gut is that the dollar sell-off will be sharp and swift. Once the dollar decisively breaks below last year's lows, many of the traders who jumped ship in the recent rally will look to re-establish their positions. This will accelerate the dollar's descent and refocus everyone's attention back on the financial train-wreck unfolding in the United States. Any doubts about the future of the U.S. dollar should be laid to rest by today's announcement that San Francisco Federal Reserve President Janet Yellen has been nominated to be Vice Chair of the Fed's Board of Governors, and thereby a voter on the interest rate-setting, seven-member Open Markets Committee. Ms. Yellen has earned a reputation for being one of the biggest inflation doves among the Fed's top players." Schiff is famous for his accurate predictions of the economic events of 2008.

Lindsey Williams

Dollar devalued 30-50% by end of year. It will become very difficult for the average American to afford to buy even food. This was revealed to him through an Illuminati insider.

Unnamed Economist working for US Gov't (GLP)

What we have experienced the last two years is nothing to what we are going to experience this year. If you have a job now…you may not have it in three to six months. (by August 2010). Stock market will fall = great depression. Foreign investors stop financing debt = collapse. 6.2 million are about to lose their unemployment.

Jimmy "Doomsday"

DOW will fall below 7,000 before mid summer 2010- Dollar will rise above 95 on the dollar index before mid summer 2010- Gold will bottom out below $800 before mid summer 2010- Silver will bottom out below $10 before mid summer 2010- CA debt implosion will start its major downturn by mid summer and hit crisis mode before Q4 2010- Dollar index will plunge below 65 between Q3 and Q4 2010- Commercial real estate will hit crisis mode in Q4 2010- Over 35 states will be bailed out by end of Q4 2010 by the US tax payer End of Q4 2010 gold will hit $1,600 and silver jump to $35 an oz.

George Ure

Markets up until mid-to-late-summer. Then "all hell breaks lose" from then on through the rest of the year.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government; History
KEYWORDS: 2010meltdown; 2010predictions; celente; economiccollapse; endtimes; finance; money; predictions; predictions2010
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1 posted on 05/27/2010 3:15:55 PM PDT by Fight4Freedom1
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To: Fight4Freedom1

bump


2 posted on 05/27/2010 3:18:23 PM PDT by oldfart (Obama nation = abomination. Think about it!)
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To: Fight4Freedom1

Let me go all those guys one better. As the major volcanos in Iceland explode and kill tens of millions of people throughout Europe, the stock exchanges in America will explode.


3 posted on 05/27/2010 3:18:38 PM PDT by muawiyah ("Git Out The Way")
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To: Fight4Freedom1

That ruined my evening.


4 posted on 05/27/2010 3:21:14 PM PDT by Qwackertoo (Let this nightmare of Nov. 4, 2008 be over ASAP.)
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To: Fight4Freedom1
This is ridiculous.

Haven't you heard the economy has turned a corner? /s

5 posted on 05/27/2010 3:21:18 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: Fight4Freedom1

All right!!!

I’m running up the credit cards and buying that Lamborgini.....

WooHoo...we’re all gonna die tomorrow....


6 posted on 05/27/2010 3:23:56 PM PDT by nevergore ("It could be that the purpose of my life is simply to serve as a warning to others.")
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To: Fight4Freedom1

Well, since they quoted Lyndon LaRouche we know they must be right...


7 posted on 05/27/2010 3:25:11 PM PDT by Ramius (Personally, I give us... one chance in three. More tea?)
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To: blam

Didn’t you post this a few days ago? Either I’ve seen the future or this is a repost of something I saw a few days ago. It is the exact same article.

I can’t find it with a title search though.


8 posted on 05/27/2010 3:26:12 PM PDT by RobRoy (The US Today: Revelation 18:4)
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To: Fight4Freedom1

Where’s Obammy’s concentration camp located???


9 posted on 05/27/2010 3:28:00 PM PDT by Dallas59 (President Robert Gibbs 2009-2013)
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To: muawiyah

...killing tens of millions of stock brokers?


10 posted on 05/27/2010 3:28:54 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: Fight4Freedom1

Here it is: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2517424/posts

The same list posted a week ago. It wasn’t Blam.


11 posted on 05/27/2010 3:29:08 PM PDT by RobRoy (The US Today: Revelation 18:4)
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To: Fight4Freedom1

I like how they quote Lyndon Larouche. lol


12 posted on 05/27/2010 3:29:31 PM PDT by FoxPro (Out side of a dog, books are mans best friend. Inside of a dog, it is to dark to read.)
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To: Dallas59

At the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico...
The “leak” is just an excuse to build it; human bodies make EXCELLENT bore-plugs.
[/conspiracy]


13 posted on 05/27/2010 3:31:04 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: Fight4Freedom1
Ping!
14 posted on 05/27/2010 3:35:35 PM PDT by JimBobWay
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To: Fight4Freedom1

I wonder if the Canadian or Aussie dollars will hold up.


15 posted on 05/27/2010 3:36:09 PM PDT by Frantzie (Democrats = Party of I*lam)
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To: Fight4Freedom1

From Dec. 2009, but bears repeating imo.

I find this one most interesting. December 14. 2009 Bloomberg did a lengthy report about the coming food shortage...

Fastest Food Inflation Since Riots Means Milk Up 39% (Update1)

By Alan Bjerga, Madelene Pearson and Yi Tian

Dec. 14 (Bloomberg) — Sean Corrigan, chief investment strategist at Diapason Commodities Management SA, talks with Bloomberg’s Rishaad Salamat about the outlook for commodities. Speaking in London, Corrigan also discusses the impact on business of plans to reduce carbon dioxide emissions.
Dec. 14 (Bloomberg) — Falling production in commodities from rice to milk is bad news for just about everyone except investors.

Rice may surge 63 percent to $1,038 a metric ton from $638 on Philippine imports and a shortage in India, a Bloomberg survey of importers, exporters and analysts showed. The U.S. government says nonfat dry milk may jump 39 percent next year, and JPMorgan Chase & Co. forecasts a 25 percent gain for sugar. Global food costs jumped 7 percent in November, the most since February 2008, four months before reaching a record, according to the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization.

Farm prices this year lagged behind copper futures that doubled and oil’s 57 percent increase. A recovery from the worst recession since World War II would spur food demand and boost costs for buyers of commodities including milk processor Dean Foods Co. while increasing the number of hungry people that the UN says now exceeds 1 billion.

“Agricultural commodities will be a great investment in the next three to five years,” said Oliver Kratz, who manages $10 billion as head of Global Thematic Strategy investments at Deutsche Bank AG’s DB Advisors in New York, including $3 billion in agriculture. For those who can’t afford to pay more for food, there’s the “painful” risk of hunger, he said.

Expanding populations and higher incomes are boosting consumption in China and India. China’s milk demand is recovering after domestic supplies were tainted with melamine, a chemical used in making plastics that killed at least six babies and sickened almost 300,000 children. Droughts in India and Argentina and typhoons in the Philippines have reduced output.

Food-Price Risk

“Inventories are extremely low in a number of grains markets,” Barclays Capital said Dec. 10. “The prospect of a further bout of food-price inflation in 2010 cannot be ruled out since many of the factors that contributed to higher prices in 2007 and 2008 are still a feature.”

Stockpiles of corn and rice will drop before the 2010 harvest for the first time in three years, U.S. Department of Agriculture data show. The International Sugar Organization forecasts a second straight global supply deficit in the year through September 2010, and the USDA predicts stores of the sweetener will drop to the lowest level since 1995.

Pork, Poultry

Wholesale-pork prices in the U.S. are up 27 percent this year, heading for the first annual gain since 2004, as farmers hurt by two years of losses cut the domestic breeding herd to the smallest level since the USDA started collecting the data in 1964. Chicken output is sliding in the U.S., where the number of eggs placed into incubators each week is headed to the lowest quarterly average since 2002.

“The tendency for food prices is up, it’s not down,” Unilever Chief Executive Officer Paul Polman said Dec. 11 in a Bloomberg Television interview in Copenhagen. Rotterdam- and London-based Unilever, the largest consumer-product company after Procter & Gamble Co. in Cincinnati, makes Lipton tea, Hellmann’s mayonnaise and Bertolli sauces. “We need to be sure that we have the food supply, that we don’t waste, and that we continue to get increasingly efficient means to get that food to the consumers,” Polman said.

The risk of accelerating prices may be muted by “healthy” gains in inventories, including wheat, according to the FAO. Supplies in warehouses are enough to meet about 23 percent of global demand, compared with 19 percent two years ago, the FAO said last week. Inventories are “far more comfortable” than during last year’s crisis, the UN agency said.

More Wheat Supply

Global wheat stockpiles on May 31 are expected to jump 17 percent to an eight-year high of 190.9 million metric tons, after production last year reached a record 682 million tons, the USDA said Dec. 10.

Food costs jumped to a record in June 2008 as wheat, corn, rice, oats, soybeans, animal feed and cooking oil reached the highest prices ever. Indonesia, Argentina and India restricted trade to protect supplies, according to the UN. Shortages sparked about 60 riots from Haiti to the Philippines before the global credit crisis and recession sent prices plunging.

Global economic recovery means there is “increasing pressure on food prices to rise,” Nomura International Plc said in a report. “Volatility in price and supply are with us for the predictable future,” according to Josette Sheeran, the executive director of the UN’s World Food Program. “Risk is the new normal when it comes to food.”

Economic Growth Seen

The global economy will expand 3.1 percent in 2010 as more than $2 trillion in stimulus combined with demand in Asia pulls the world out the recession, the Washington-based International Monetary Fund said on Oct. 1.

The U.S. will expand 2.6 percent next year, compared with a contraction of 2.5 percent in 2009, according to the median of estimates from 83 economists in a Bloomberg survey. China’s growth will accelerate to 9.4 percent next year from 8.5 percent in 2009, a Bloomberg survey of 31 economists showed.

Some food supplies already are falling. Global production of rice, the staple for more than half the world, has lagged behind demand in four of the past eight years, USDA data show. Rising consumption is expected to erode stockpiles by 41 percent to 85.9 million tons in the 2009-2010 marketing year, down from a record 146.7 million in 2001-2002, the USDA forecasts.

Rice may exceed $1,000 a ton as dry El Nino weather, caused by a warming of sea waters in the equatorial Pacific Ocean, shrinks output and the Philippines and India boost imports, according to Sarunyu Jeamsinkul, the deputy managing director at Asia Golden Rice Ltd. in Thailand, the largest exporting nation.

Rice, Corn, Soybeans

The Thai rice price may soar to last year’s record of $1,038 a ton, according to the highest estimate in a Bloomberg survey last month of 10 importers, exporters and analysts in Vietnam, Thailand, India, Singapore and Pakistan.

Goldman Sachs Group Inc. said Dec. 3 that corn and soybeans will rally through 2011. Corn will reach $4.75 a bushel next year and $5 in 2011 on higher demand for fuels made from the grain, the bank said. Soybeans may reach $11 a bushel in the next 12 months and average $12 a bushel in 2011, Goldman said.

Decatur, Illinois-based Archer Daniels Midland Co., the second-largest U.S. producer of corn-based ethanol behind Poet LLC, reported a 53 percent drop in quarterly profit last month on tighter supplies of soybeans it processes into animal feed and cooking oil.

In the sweeteners and starches business, Archer Daniels Midland’s profit more than tripled to $194 million, partly because of higher selling prices and reduced costs for corn, which fell from last year’s record. Archer Daniels gained 14 percent since the end of June to $30.49 in New York trading.

Milk Supplies

U.S. manufacturers’ stockpiles of nonfat dry milk fell to 90.1 million pounds on Oct. 31, 47 percent lower than a year earlier and less than half of what they were in June, the USDA said Dec. 4. Domestic production this year is down 8.2 percent, including a 27 percent drop in October, as farmers culled dairy herds to end a surplus, government data show.

The price of nonfat dry milk, used in baking products and baby formula, will rise to an average of $1.275 a pound next year from 92 cents, and cheese will increase 28 percent, the USDA said on Dec. 10. Processed and fluid milk will jump 31 percent to $16.75 per 100 pounds, the USDA said.

“We’ve been through the boom and then the bust, and it looks like we’re going to have another boom,” said Michael Harvey, an international analyst at Melbourne-based Dairy Australia, a trade group.

Milk output will fall 4 percent in Australia in 2009-2010. New Zealand’s production slipped 2 percent in the first three months of its season, and Brazil’s supply dropped 4 percent to 5 percent through July, Dairy Australia said in a report.

Westpac Forecast

Milk-powder prices may gain more than 20 percent to exceed $4,000 a ton early next year, said Westpac Banking Corp., Australia’s second-largest bank. Whole milk powder for February delivery rose to a 16-month high of $3,523 a ton at auction, Fonterra, the world’s largest dairy exporter, said on Dec. 2.

Dean Foods, the largest U.S. milk processor, said Nov. 2 that fourth-quarter profit may fall more than analysts expected, to at least 36 cents a share, because of rising raw-milk costs. Chief Executive Officer Gregg Engles told investors that prices, which will climb through next year, probably won’t surpass the records set in 2007 and 2008. Since Oct. 30, shares of Dallas- based Dean are down 5.4 percent at $17.25 in New York.

Global sugar supplies will remain “tight” for the first half of 2010, JPMorgan Chase said. There’s a “material risk” that prices for March and May will jump 28 percent to 30 cents a pound, Tobin Gorey, the bank’s global commodity strategist, wrote in a report dated Dec. 10. Sugar for March delivery in New York increased 6.6 percent last week to close at 24 cents a pound on Dec. 11.

Palm Oil, Food Output

Palm oil, the world’s most-used cooking oil, may soar to 3,000 ringgit ($882) a ton by March as El Nino parches crops in Asia, said Dorab Mistry, director of Godrej International Ltd., one of India’s biggest edible-oil buyers, on Dec. 4. Palm-oil futures for February delivery closed at 2,530 ringgit on Dec. 11 in Kuala Lumpur. Production may drop next year, he said.

Food output will need to rise 70 percent in the next four decades as the global population expands to 9.1 billion in 2050 from 6.8 billion, the FAO estimates. Seven nations in sub- Saharan Africa, the world’s most famine-prone region, will see per-capita income fall next year, according to the UN, fueling an increase in hunger, which the organization now estimates affects 1.02 billion people.

“The politicians had best be able to at least feed their populations or they’re going to have uprisings,” said Jeffrey Saut, chief investment strategist at Raymond James & Associates in St. Petersburg, Florida, which manages $220 billion. “One of the first things, other than clean water and a toilet, that people want when their per capita income rises is food.”

http://preview.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive_en10&sid...

To contact the reporters on this story: Alan Bjerga in Washington at abjerga@bloomberg.net; Madelene Pearson in Melbourne on mpearson1@bloomberg.net; Yi Tian in New York at ytian8@bloomberg.net.


16 posted on 05/27/2010 3:36:15 PM PDT by Fight4Freedom1
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To: Fight4Freedom1
Panarin forecast the probable disintegration of the USA into six parts in 2010

Looking forward to that, actually.

Watching the doomed states of 'Obamatropia' and 'Mega-Chicago One' crash and burn over the course of the next decade would make life worth living - for those of us lucky enough to live in Greater Arizona or Palinsburg anyway.

17 posted on 05/27/2010 3:36:48 PM PDT by agere_contra
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To: Fight4Freedom1; Quix
How about that, this article resurfaced again. Hopefully the sticky-fingered mods will keep their paws off it this time.

Pinging Quix. (Let's see how long it stays).


Frowning takes 68 muscles.
Smiling takes 6.
Pulling this trigger takes 2.
I'm lazy.

18 posted on 05/27/2010 3:37:52 PM PDT by The Comedian (Evil can only succeed if good men don't point at it and laugh.)
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To: Fight4Freedom1

The Fountainhead - Howard Roark Speech (Ayn Rand)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc7oZ9yWqO4&feature=related

This is John Galt Speaking | A Montage of Modern History
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1JiAYJTZJA


19 posted on 05/27/2010 3:38:39 PM PDT by nolongerademocrat ("Before you ask G-d for something, first thank G-d for what you already have." B'rachot 30b)
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To: muawiyah

hee hee, Ping for you !


20 posted on 05/27/2010 3:39:22 PM PDT by onona (dbada)
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