Posted on 12/18/2008 4:27:24 AM PST by SonlitKnight
The late Fr. William G. Most was one of the most distinguished Catholic teachers, theologians and Scripture scholars of our time. His long teaching career, extending well over 50 years, was marked by unswerving fidelity to the Magisterium of the Church, theological brilliance, and an ability to communicate clearly to layman and professional alike. His bio tells a different tale.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai
I would not expect the good Friar to exhibit anything less than complete subservience to the position of Rome. This is from his page: The late Fr. William G. Most was one of the most distinguished Catholic teachers, theologians and Scripture scholars of our time. His long teaching career, extending well over 50 years, was marked by unswerving fidelity to the Magisterium of the Church, theological brilliance, and an ability to communicate clearly to layman and professional alike.
So....with that caveat.....
This is from: "SOLAR AND LUNAR ECLIPSES OF THE ANCIENT NEAR EAST" by M. Kudler: Neukirchen-Bluyn: Verias Butson and Bercker Kevelaer, 1971. A list of lunar eclipses: 7 B.C. none; 6 B.C. none; 5 B.C. Total Eclipse on March 23 at 8:30 p.m. and a Total Eclipse on September 15 at 10:30 p.m.; 4 B.C. Partial Eclipse on March 13 at 2:20 a.m.; 3 B.C. none; 2 B.C. none.
[Josephus, Antiquities 17:6:1-4] Just before the eclipse Herod sent ambassadors to Rome. Then, sometime during the next week there was a group of zealots, who stormed the temple and proceeded to chop down a golden eagle idol Herod had previously erected over the entrance of one of the gates to the Temple. Herod found out that Matthias the high priest was responsible for inciting the zealots to take such action. They thought Herod was dead. He wasn't and they were caught and punished. Herod's punishment for Matthias was this: He deprived Matthias of the high priesthood, as in part an occasion of this action, and made Joazer, who was Matthias' wife's brother, high priest in his stead. Now it happened, that during the time of the high priesthood of this Matthias, there was another person made high priest for a single day, that very day on which the Jews observe as a fast day (was the day of Atonement) the great day of expiation.....Yom Kippur".
The occasion was this: "Matthias the high priest, on the night before that day when the fast was to be celebrated, seemed in a dream to have conversation with his wife: and because he could not officiate himself on that account, Joseph, the son of Ellemus, his kinsman, assisted him in that sacred office. But Herod reprieved this Matthias of the high priesthood, and burnt the other Matthias, who had raised the sedition, with his companions, alive. And that very night there was an eclipse of the moon (Josephus 17:6:4). The night of that day they were burned, five nights after the dream, there was an eclipse of the moon. This was September 15, 5 B.C......Herod died after this eclipse and before the next Passover.
Continuing.........
[17:6:5] Shortly after that, Herod's distemper increased and he sought the help of the warm mineral baths at Callirrhoe, which was located beyond the Jordan river. It has been estimated he went there the week ending November 4th. There is no direct indication how long he was there, but for his funeral procession and burial to have transpired after the cold of the winter, he must have stayed there approximately eight to nine weeks. Then he went to Jericho, which has been projected to end the week of January 13th. And came again to Jericho, where he grew so choleric, that it brought him to do all things like a madman, and thought he was near his death, he contrived the following wicked designs. He then commanded the principal men of his government to come to Jericho, there intending to have them killed after his death. After his death, they were not killed. A few days later Herod received letters from Rome from the ambassadors. While this news was good, and seemed to revive him he nevertheless attempted suicide but was restrained by Achiabus. While still in this rage he ordered his son Antipater to be killed. Herod died five days later. When he had done these things, he died, the fifth day after he had caused Antipater to be slain, having reigned, since he had procured Antigones to be slain, thirty-four years; but since he had been declared king by the Romans, thirty-seven [Ant.17:8:1]. His death would have been approximately the week of February 17, 4 B.C.
Based upon this.......Herod died almost exactly 37 years to the month from the time of his coronation. He died after an eclipse and before a Passover. The one who succeeded Herod was Archelaus. He carried out the wishes of Herod for a long funeral procession and period of mourning before his burial. Including Sabbaths.....the time needed for this was approximately 25 days. This period ends in the middle of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, after the Passover, with the slaughter of 3,000 people by Archelaus. The March 13, 4 B.C. eclipse is wrong. It is obvious from the historical evidence that there was not enough time between a March 13 eclipse and the Passover of April for all of these events to have occurred.
{John 1:14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. Dwelt: 4637. skenoo (skay-no'-o) to tent or encamp, i.e. (figuratively) to occupy (as a mansion) or (specially), to reside (as God did in the Tabernacle of old, a symbol of protection and communion)
[John 7:2] Now the Jew's feast of tabernacles was at hand. Tabernacles: 4634. skenopegia (skay-nop-ayg-ee'-ah) the Festival of Tabernacles (so called from the custom of erecting booths for temporary homes)
It is really not my interpretation.....it is the Greek language. That is why it is proper to render [John 1:14] And the Word was made flesh, and tabernacled among us. To introduce the nature and mission of Christ, John employs in his writings the metaphor of the "booth" of the Feast of Tabernacles. He shows us that Christ....the Word who was with God in the beginning has manifested himself in this world in a way that we cannot mistake. "He has Pitched His tent among us"! Do you think maybe John was linking the birth of Our Messiah to the Feast of Tabernacles? Sukkot was always known as the season of Joy and the Feast of the Nations [Luke 2:10] And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
Given the climate, September is simply impossible. In my view, that Jesus was born on December 25th is an issue of verified historical fact.
The winter months in Israel are similar to what we experience in the central valley of California. Very cold nights....sometimes below freezing with some snow flurries during December and January. September....on the other hand can still be very mild at night....definitely pleasant during daylight hours. To bring your pregnant wife, on the back of a donkey, many miles encompassing more than just a few days .....would not be considered harsh....necessarily during the Fall Festivals.
As far as being historical fact.....Pope Liberius in 354 A.D. was the first Pontiff to recognize any day at all....and December 25th had been selected. The first "Christ-Mass" was celebrated by Pope Sixtus in 435 A.D. and coincided with the existing Roman celebration of Mithras. This was done in an attempt to divert the populace from the popular pagan feasts already instituted throughout the Church/State Empire. For the first three hundred odd years from the resurrection there were no celebrations of Our Lord's birthday.
Origen had written early in the third century that "In the scriptures, no one is recorded to have kept a feast or held a great banquet on his birthday. It is only sinners who make great rejoicings over the day in which they were born into this world". (Catholic Encyclopedia, 1908 edition, Vol. 3,p.724, "Natal Day".)
For the first three hundred years after the resurrection nothing is mentioned about the Birthday of Our Lord. And, of course....in addition to early history being silent about it.....the Apostles did not recognize or celebrate the nativity as well according to scripture.
My calculations and figures regarding the death of Herod from post #92 are correct.....and The Lord was born during the last few months of Herod's life.
So, your position is borne, not so much out of legitimate Scriptural study as of blind, irrational hatred of Catholicism.
Thanks for clearing that up.
Please don’t comment on my threads any more....
Just makes me crazy. I try to get into a meaningful discussion about the birthdate of Christ and some want to use it as nothing more than an assault on Catholicism...
just incredible
And THIS is all that matters. That He WAS BORN is what is important. This is just the recognized day from long, long ago. This was not invented so that department stores could make sales. What is important is that Jesus was born, lived, and died on the cross for us, to have a path to Heaven by Him. I don't care if he was really born on March 17th or something. That is not important too me.
Amen! Happy Birthday Jesus!
Merry Christmas Retired Army!
Perhaps you need to learn to read. I provided FAR more than Church doctrine. In fact, I provided Biblical support and Historical support as well.
To then use it as a launching pad for ad-hominem nonsense, such as yours is beyond the pale. Why don’t you try countering the information provided?
Oh wait...we know why.
nevermind....
I am here in Fridged Chicago, kept warm by the thought of Corruption fighting U.S. Attorney Patrick Fiztgerald doing his job and sending dozens of CROOK COUNTY politicians to jail for a long time!!
Wrong. The date of Herod’s death is NOT established as 4-6 BC and I provided proof. Please come down off your high horse. Herod died in 1 BC according to one of the foremost Scripture Scholars.
Please re-post ANYTHING I have stated as an ad-hom.
Young's Literal Translation: [John 1:14] And the Word became flesh, and did tabernacle among us, and we beheld his glory, glory as of an only begotten of a father, full of grace and truth.
Young's is a very accurate translation....although is is sometimes difficult to read in the English because of word usage, syntax, idioms etc. When they say "Literal"....it actually is!
Sheesh. You need to chill. Continue you fanciful “research” on your own.
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