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To: SonlitKnight
please give your thoughts on this objection by foremost scripture scholar Fr William Most.

I would not expect the good Friar to exhibit anything less than complete subservience to the position of Rome. This is from his page: The late Fr. William G. Most was one of the most distinguished Catholic teachers, theologians and Scripture scholars of our time. His long teaching career, extending well over 50 years, was marked by unswerving fidelity to the Magisterium of the Church, theological brilliance, and an ability to communicate clearly to layman and professional alike.

So....with that caveat.....

This is from: "SOLAR AND LUNAR ECLIPSES OF THE ANCIENT NEAR EAST" by M. Kudler: Neukirchen-Bluyn: Verias Butson and Bercker Kevelaer, 1971. A list of lunar eclipses: 7 B.C. none; 6 B.C. none; 5 B.C. Total Eclipse on March 23 at 8:30 p.m. and a Total Eclipse on September 15 at 10:30 p.m.; 4 B.C. Partial Eclipse on March 13 at 2:20 a.m.; 3 B.C. none; 2 B.C. none.

[Josephus, Antiquities 17:6:1-4] Just before the eclipse Herod sent ambassadors to Rome. Then, sometime during the next week there was a group of zealots, who stormed the temple and proceeded to chop down a golden eagle idol Herod had previously erected over the entrance of one of the gates to the Temple. Herod found out that Matthias the high priest was responsible for inciting the zealots to take such action. They thought Herod was dead. He wasn't and they were caught and punished. Herod's punishment for Matthias was this: He deprived Matthias of the high priesthood, as in part an occasion of this action, and made Joazer, who was Matthias' wife's brother, high priest in his stead. Now it happened, that during the time of the high priesthood of this Matthias, there was another person made high priest for a single day, that very day on which the Jews observe as a fast day (was the day of Atonement) the great day of expiation.....Yom Kippur".

The occasion was this: "Matthias the high priest, on the night before that day when the fast was to be celebrated, seemed in a dream to have conversation with his wife: and because he could not officiate himself on that account, Joseph, the son of Ellemus, his kinsman, assisted him in that sacred office. But Herod reprieved this Matthias of the high priesthood, and burnt the other Matthias, who had raised the sedition, with his companions, alive. And that very night there was an eclipse of the moon (Josephus 17:6:4). The night of that day they were burned, five nights after the dream, there was an eclipse of the moon. This was September 15, 5 B.C......Herod died after this eclipse and before the next Passover.

Continuing.........

[17:6:5] Shortly after that, Herod's distemper increased and he sought the help of the warm mineral baths at Callirrhoe, which was located beyond the Jordan river. It has been estimated he went there the week ending November 4th. There is no direct indication how long he was there, but for his funeral procession and burial to have transpired after the cold of the winter, he must have stayed there approximately eight to nine weeks. Then he went to Jericho, which has been projected to end the week of January 13th. And came again to Jericho, where he grew so choleric, that it brought him to do all things like a madman, and thought he was near his death, he contrived the following wicked designs. He then commanded the principal men of his government to come to Jericho, there intending to have them killed after his death. After his death, they were not killed. A few days later Herod received letters from Rome from the ambassadors. While this news was good, and seemed to revive him he nevertheless attempted suicide but was restrained by Achiabus. While still in this rage he ordered his son Antipater to be killed. Herod died five days later. When he had done these things, he died, the fifth day after he had caused Antipater to be slain, having reigned, since he had procured Antigones to be slain, thirty-four years; but since he had been declared king by the Romans, thirty-seven [Ant.17:8:1]. His death would have been approximately the week of February 17, 4 B.C.

Based upon this.......Herod died almost exactly 37 years to the month from the time of his coronation. He died after an eclipse and before a Passover. The one who succeeded Herod was Archelaus. He carried out the wishes of Herod for a long funeral procession and period of mourning before his burial. Including Sabbaths.....the time needed for this was approximately 25 days. This period ends in the middle of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, after the Passover, with the slaughter of 3,000 people by Archelaus. The March 13, 4 B.C. eclipse is wrong. It is obvious from the historical evidence that there was not enough time between a March 13 eclipse and the Passover of April for all of these events to have occurred.

103 posted on 12/21/2008 11:17:11 AM PST by Diego1618
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To: Diego1618

So, your position is borne, not so much out of legitimate Scriptural study as of blind, irrational hatred of Catholicism.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Please don’t comment on my threads any more....


106 posted on 12/22/2008 1:39:48 AM PST by SonlitKnight
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To: Diego1618; safisoft
" While still in this rage he ordered his son Antipater to be killed. Herod died five days later. When he had done these things, he died, the fifth day after he had caused Antipater to be slain, having reigned, since he had procured Antigones to be slain, thirty-four years; but since he had been declared king by the Romans, thirty-seven" [Ant.17:8:1].

Josephus is pretty incontrovertible evidence here. It is hard to find an encyclopedia that doesn't concede 4 BC as the date of Herod's death. And then there is this little tidbit from Wikipedia:

"The scholarly consensus, based on Josephus' Antiquities of the Jews is that Herod died at the end of March or early April in 4 BC. Josephus wrote that Herod died 37 years after being named as King by the Romans, and 34 years after the death of Antigonus.[10] This would imply that he died in 4 BC. This is confirmed by the fact that his three sons, between whom his kingdom was divided, dated their rule from 4 BC. For instance, he states that Herod Philip II's death took place after a 37-year reign in the 20th year of Tiberius, which would imply that he took over on Herod's death in 4 BC."[Ant 18:4]

124 posted on 12/22/2008 3:10:18 PM PST by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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