Posted on 12/17/2006 5:20:45 AM PST by Nasty McPhilthy
A trio of climbers, ascended Mount Hood, under adverse winter conditions — to test their survival skills. The intrepid climbers took gear such as food, fuel, bivvy sacks, a shovel and ropes. These men knew they were taking a big risk – or they would not have taken survival gear with them.
Mountain climbing is a sport for the wealthy who can afford to take weeks off from work to indulge in their expensive hobby.
These clowns have been missing for over a week, and the state is expending tens of thousands of dollars in search and resuce operations.
Why is the sheriff’s department and the U.S Forest Service rangers looking for these men who are addicted to danger?
The taxpayers shouldn’t have to pay for the foolhardy thrill seekers who knew they were taking a big risk. The families of the climbers should pay for their own search teams; they shouldn’t expect the government to pay for the reckless chance the climbers took.
From USA Today:
“Deputy Gerry Tiffany, spokesman for the Hood River County sheriff’s office, said its office does not charge for its searches.”
I think it’s about time the government starts charging for rescue operations – when it’s a case of adventurers who place themselves in danger.
I’m sick of hearing about the missing climbers; I’m sick of watching the relatives of the missing men on TV praise the courage of the climbers, and I’m sick at the thought that taxpayers are paying for the rescue efforts.
One of my relatives flies Search & Rescue with the military. It was something he volunteered for and something he loves to do.
One weekend, he invited us to an exercise where his helicopter was practicing recoveries with several local Mountain Search and Rescue units.
Each one of those units was manned by unpaid volunteers who were there because that is exactly what they wanted to do.
For each individual, it would be much safer to always followed the safe path from the cradle to the grave.
For our nation, however, it is far more dangerous to have a society populated solely by such people.
"Only those who are fit to live do not fear to die. And none are fit to die who have shrunk from the joy of life and the duty of life. Both life and death are parts of the same great adventure." ............. Theodore Roosevelt
You said..."It might go over okay in some "protective states" -- but it wouldn't fly at all in Oregon..."
May 1996, Deschutes County became the first search and rescue agency to use Oregon's reimbursement law. Go figure.
Well since I have been in this state for over 50 years I guess you are not as Oregonian as you think. Having skied on that mountain numerous times, I know how bad it can get below the level they were at. They had no idea being from TX how bad those winds are. What they tried was crazy.
The fact is they made a bad decision and now people have to leave their families and risk their lives because of that decision. Some of us are getting tired of that cavalier attitude. Course thanks to Katrina anyone can make any decision and the gummit should take care of them. Worse yet the SAR will get blamed if they make any mistakes!
Why they didn't have GPS tracking is another mystery. They may know climbing, but they still made a stupid decision on trying that climb in those conditions.
Pray for W and Our Troops
You said -- "May 1996, Deschutes County became the first search and rescue agency to use Oregon's reimbursement law. Go figure."
It's not something that even the agencies, themselves want to do. In fact, I doubt if you'll find it used at all, except in one or two instances, spread over hundreds of rescues.
See this --
"But in the vast majority of cases, the agencies do not send a bill.
The question of whether to send a bill to subjects of search and rescue missions when plain ignorance is displayed, when a lack of care is tossed out the window or when laws are broken is not as easy as it might seem.
Search and rescue officials maintain that regularly charging for their services would cause people to hesitate to call for help out of worry of being billed. Searchers fear such a delay would cause people to get themselves even deeper into life-threatening situations and make rescues more difficult and dangerous for crews."
And so -- there you go..., they figure rightly that they would have even more dangerous rescues to do -- as people refrain from getting help and it turns into a monumental disaster, then. That's definitely the way it would go.
Also --
"Georges Kleinbaum, state search and rescue coordinator with the Oregon State Police division of emergency management, says the reimbursement law was rushed into the Legislature in response to the 1995 search and rescue mission on Mount Hood and not supported by Oregon sheriffs."
And so it goes.
By the way, that rescue mission found the people *well-equipped* and knowing what they were doing and holed up in a snow-cave, just waiting out the storm. They were perfectly fine.
Regards,
Star Traveler
Works for me.
That's a pretty twisted though my friend .
You said -- "Well since I have been in this state for over 50 years I guess you are not as Oregonian as you think. Having skied on that mountain numerous times, I know how bad it can get below the level they were at. They had no idea being from TX how bad those winds are. What they tried was crazy."
It seems according to you -- that you can't be an Oregonian unless you've surpassed 50 years. I'm afraid that would exclude a lot of our distinguished citizens and legislators in Oregon, who may have the mistaken impression that they are Oregonians.
But, I never did claim to have outlived (in the state) the natives that Lewis and Clark found -- so I definitely never thought -- in my wildest imagination -- that I would surpass your time in Oregon.
By the way, does that count for those from NY, too? Just wondering how their winds are there.
And..., by the way, you've heard of the Columbus Day Storm, I'm sure (being a "native" and all). Well, I wonder how those people in Texas compare that to the Galveston Hurricane and Hurrican Carla and so on? Were their winds so paltry? Or, maybe, those Texans just have short memories and can't remember how strong the winds are in those storms.
Oh..., that reminds me, I think I heard that the strongest winds on earth occur in Tornadoes. I remember that those F5 tornadoes can produce winds over 300 miles per hour. Those Texans wouldn't be thinking of those, would they?
Just wondering...
You said -- "The fact is they made a bad decision and now people have to leave their families and risk their lives because of that decision."
Well, a lot of things happen that is not the result of bad decisions. In fact there were some climbers on Mt. Hood, a number of years ago, where they were well equipped, very experienced, and were holed up in a snow cave, while rescuers were looking for them. They were perfectly fine.
The fact of the matter is that they made *good decisions* and they were well and alive, with no problems. It still generated a rescue. So, it's not bad decisions that generate these things. Just as one makes decisions that are prudent according to whatever they see the conditions are at the time, the searchers made a prudent decision to look for the climbers (somewhere back in 1995). And so, no one made any bad decisions.
That's the way it is in Oregon. The weather can turn bad and all good decisions can be made. Sometimes people make it and sometimes they don't. That's the Oregon way.
Regards,
Star Traveler
The climbers like to climb
The rescuers like to rescue
Yet Man50D, sitting behind his keyboard, is still not happy. So let's prevent both from ever doing so again. < /sarcasm >
Where did you see/read that they didn't have a two way radio with them?
I've read a lot of information about this and I've not heard it reported that they DIDN'T have a GPS. Where did you get that information?
At Timberline lodge they offer GPS trackers for rent and recomend all climbers to carry them. Don't know why these experts didn't have them.
Pray for W and Our Troops
Oh well, I would rather endure embarassment and live to live it down! but that is just me.
Yeah, but look. There are no plane crashes or tsunamis to cover. And it's the holidays. So we are all sitting around watching the tube, and there are no other dramatic human int stories. So, we have to "make do" with what we have, these three unprepared climbers with no $600 Emergency Locator Beacons. That is the best we can do now.
I liked ole Teddy, especiallly carrying the big stick thing. That is what I do, coward that I am. But I appreciate those who aren't cowards. I wish I had some of their traits.
And on another front, the Miss US is going back to Kentucky to mend her ways.
Where did you see/read that they didn't have a two way radio with them?The only 'comms' being fessed up to are via 'cellular' telephone.
I think it would be safe to say that if the rescuers had made 'radio' contact we would a) have heard about and b) have a more certain idea of where the climbers are and c) their condition.
Amazing how these don't charge the climber, Freepers from Oregon aren't familiar with Oregons Rescue Reimbursement Law which came about in 1995 with a similiar event.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-12-14-search-debate_x.htm
Oregon passed its law in 1995 amid a public outcry over three college students who cost taxpayers $10,000 for a search on Mount Hood. The climbers turned up safe, warm and playing cards in their tent. They hadn't carried a cellphone or a radio locator beacon.
http://www.traditionalmountaineering.org/News_Rescue_Charges.htm
Read more:
Paying the Price for Rescue
PAYING THE PRICE FOR RESCUE
Agencies can charge reckless adventurers, but usually don't
By Jason Eck and Deanne Darr
The Bulletin
When a Redmond man became stranded while trying to rappel into the steep Crooked River Gorge in the middle of a cold winter night three years ago, rescuers spent about four hours lowering him to safety.
Not only was the man unprepared, inappropriately dressed and packing only 250 feet of rope to reach the bottom of the 365-foot cliff, but authorities suspected he had also been drinking. The man jammed the descent ring on his rappelling gear and was left hanging about 100 feet from the canyon floor for about seven hours until rescuers could lower him to safety.
Search and rescue crews from Jefferson and Deschutes counties eased the man from his precarious position and slapped him with a charge of disorderly conduct.
But should he also have footed a portion of the bill for the cost of the rescue for disregard for his own safety and the danger he created for rescuers?
This case and many like it are times agencies could consider charging rescue subjects for a small portion of their services. A 4-year-old Oregon law gives search agencies the authority to charge subjects of search and rescues up to $500 a piece when "reasonable care" was not used and when "applicable laws were violated."
But in the vast majority of cases, the agencies do not send a bill.
The question of whether to send a bill to subjects of search and rescue missions when plain ignorance is displayed, when a lack of care is tossed out the window or when laws are broken is not as easy as it might seem.
Search and rescue officials maintain that regularly charging for their services would cause people to hesitate to call for help out of worry of being billed. Searchers fear such a delay would cause people to get themselves even deeper into life-threatening situations and make rescues more difficult and dangerous for crews.
But officials say the .reimbursement law is a tool they will begin use in appropriate cases to recover lost taxpayer dollars and send a message to persons who place search and rescue personnel, themselves and others in danger.
While rescue units have a high sympathy threshold for the lost and unlucky, they are sometimes irked by the cases they encounter. A few examples:
• A search for three hikers caught in a snowstorm on Mount Hood cost taxpayers about $10,000 in March 1995. More than 100 people searched for the three college students, who in fact were well-equipped, warm and safe. The three waited the storm out in their tent playing cards. The hikers were not carrying a cellular-phone or radio locator unit. The incident prompted the 1995 reimbursement legislation.
• Local search crews responded to a call several years ago for a rockhound who was reported missing in the Horse Ridge area. Rescuers mobilized and a search was activated. Crews found out they were searching in vain - the man had not gone rock hunting, and in fact was not even in the state.
• In 1993 two adults drowned and three children were rescued after going over Dillon Falls on the Deschutes River near Bend. The inexperienced rafters went over the falls, rated as nearly impossible to navigate, despite a sign that warned of the danger ahead.
None of those cases resulted in a billing.
But in May 1996, Deschutes County became the first search and rescue agency to use Oregon's reimbursement law.
Rescuers spent two hours fishing two of five Portland-area men out of the rapids of Benham Falls on the Deschutes River. The party attempted to ride a class VI rapid despite warnings from bystanders and signs.
The men shared a $1,560 bill for the cost of the rescue.
Excerpted.
I don't know if they were equipped with two-way radios and GPS or not, but it would seem that if they were,………Search Over, Resume Normal Activities.
Well, I guess the issue is "self centeredness"
I suspect these same climbers would be the first to volunteer to go rescue someone else. I think the rescuers are by and large climbers.
I think they are different from us.
I think fulfilling a life "thrill",,I would say "ambition" is not a bad thing. Lots of people do it.
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