Further proof the Founders believed religion had no place in public life

C-Pol: Constitutionalist, Conservative Politics ^ | December 30, 2004

[Constitutionalist Conservative]

In the ongoing culture wars, Ben Franklin has been claimed by both Christians and secularists as one of their own. Here's what he had to say about government acknowledgment of religion (at that time, "Religion" meant Christianity; to claim anything else would be nonsense):

That wise Men have in all Ages thought Government necessary for the Good of Mankind; and, that wise Governments have always thought Religion necessary for the well ordering and well-being of Society, and accordingly have been ever careful to encourage and protect the Ministers of it, paying them the highest publick Honours, that their Doctrines might thereby meet with the greater Respect among the common People.

"Necessary for the well ordering and well-being of society". We're now in the midst of terrible experiment to see what effect the purging of religion from the public square has on the well ordering and well-being of society. May God have mercy on us.

(Quote credit: The Federalist's "Founders Quote Daily")

[Congressman Billybob]

Nothing about the concept "God" requires a "personal" quality. "We are to the gods as flies to wanton boys; they kill us for their sport." Thomas Hardy. With your stated background, you should not confuse pantheism with atheism.

Rather than try to do justice to a long subject in an FR post, I will (of course) let it be known when "These are the times that try men's souls." is published. One of its few Cantos is on Paine's view of religion. (200 pages of the book are direct quotes from Paine, with sidebar comments that connect his work to the present.)

I trust you know the passages in Common Sense and The American Crisis in which he presents himself as a Christian and a Quaker, but not a pacifist. You should also be familiar with his passages early in The Age of Reason where he attacks the three major world religions for their dubious foundings and logic. It is right after that that he declares his "religion" as based on the universe itself and free of dogma.

I'll let Paine's words speak for themselves. Suffice to say, Paine's view of the religious and moral basis for personal and civic virtue is quite different from the nihilistic basis of "morality" found in Jean Paul Sartre's works -- now THERE was an atheist, not a deist.

Billybob

[escapefromboston]

Now if Ben had SpellCheck that wouldn't have happened.

[jackbob]

Just to add a little US law to Jefferson's words.

TREATY OF PEACE AND FRIENDSHIP BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND THE BEY AND SUBJECTS OF TRIPOLI OF BARBARY

Treaty signed at Tripoli November 4, 1796, and at Algiers January 3, 1797.

Senate advice and consent to ratification June 7, 1797.

Ratified by the President of the United States June 10, 1797.

Entered into force June 10, 1797.

Proclaimed by the President of the United States June 10, 1797

ARTICLE 11

As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion, - as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen, - and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

[FreeKeys]

Wow. I hadn't known that. Thanks.