Email President Bush and confront him about his stand for homosexuals

Agape press ^ | 1/26/03 | Tony Horton

[TonyTheTigger]

To: president@whitehouse.gov; vice.president@whitehouse.gov Subject: Email President Bush and confront him about his stand for homosexuals

Dear Mr. President this is what the web page seen by millions will say. I also have a rather large size mailing list I will send this out to.

Email President Bush and confront him about his stand for homosexuals

To: president@whitehouse.gov, vice.president@whitehouse.gov

You will not receive my vote and I will make web pages after web pages exposing you for the fence straddling liar you have become. Ignore this if you want.... I will make good on what I promised you.

If this story is false I will not do what I have said. If I get no response I will take it to mean your guilty.

Bush White House, Clinton White House ... No Difference on Homosexuality

News from Agape Press

http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/1/242003b.asp

A former voter for you,

Tony Horton

[BibChr]

Love 'em. Live by 'em.

And that's my raisson d'etre, doncha know: getting people back into their Bibles!

Dan

[xzins]

That's what I figured they'd say.

Good question: when to cut your losses and leave? Probably right that I don't do it fast enough.

[George W. Bush]

How is it, sink, that you're almost always the very first to post on any anti-Bush thread and always disparage anything remotely anti-Bush? This is a very long-term pattern.

Do you spend your life on FR? Is it a paid job?

[George W. Bush]

If this story is false I will not do what I have said. If I get no response I will take it to mean your guilty.

Dear President Bush,

Have you stopped beating your wife yet?

If you don't answer, I'll know you're guilty.

Cordially,
   The Right Wing

Well, you shouldn't expect them to answer, even via email. It won't happen. Period. Regardless of their actual position, any answer they gave to you would be handing ammo to you or to the pro-sodomite factions. So they aren't going to answer you. If the subject comes up for discussion publicly, they want to control every facet and use the usual imperial props to press their position to the public.

Also, you should correct your spelling, grammar and punctuation or they'll conclude they're dealing with an elementary student from a public school. These people push paper for a living and they aren't going to worry too much about your letter as it stands.

I think the Christian site (AFA) has it about right: Bush didn't know about his appointee and would never have appointed him had he known that he held anything remotely close to traditional Christian moral views on the topic of sodomy.

The appointee's problem is that he told the truth. It is a "gay plague". It's just becoming illegal to tell the truth about that well-known elementary fact.

The Bush campaign spent so much money and time in hopeless California and pandering to minorities (blacks,Hispanics,sodomites) that it never did pay off at the ballot box. And they keep doing the exact same thing in office, repudiating their actual supporters while courting those who will never vote for them anyway. This is not a mistake. It's quite deliberate policy.

I hadn't planned to vote Bush in 2000 but changed my mind on the day of the election when it became clear the Demoncrats were trying to steal the election.

I'm not seeing much reason to vote Republican again. I hate my RINO carpetbagger congresscritter and see only marginal differences between my two senators, one Democrat and one Republican. In '04, I'll probably vote Constitution party. They've made it clear they don't actual want or value my vote already. Maybe we backward Christian folk need to make another Bush a one-termer so the party liberals get the message.

[George W. Bush]

The whole point that I've been taught is this: love the sinner, but hate the sin. I can BOTH hate homosexuality because God says it's wrong...

Hasn't this clichè become a little tired? Do you think the Bible really extolls hatred? I think we're to love others, even in their sins but warn them of the consequences of breaking God's law. I think that when the Bible refers in any way to hating sin, it is our own sin we're encouraged to hate.

What do you think? Got a list of references from the bible telling us to hate the sins of other people?

[George W. Bush]

How is that ignorant? Didn't you know he was a Methodist?

I thought Bush was converted (as a drunk) by some evangelical bunch. Then, he joined and attended a Methodist church during his governorship but kept in touch with a broad range of Christian churches. After going to Washington, he attended the same church as Clinton did, an Episcopalean, I think. The minister is the same liveral adulterous critter that "counseled" Clinton.

[xzins]

It is a position that is based on biblical principle. "Just War" is a similar type of theory.....supposedly biblical

Each point stands on it's own.

1. Am I to "love" sinners? Sacrifice for them, care about them enough to spread the gospel...certainly biblical.

2. Am I to "hate" sin? You accept I'm to hate sin in myself. Am I to hate anything that "hurts or destroys in all God's holy mountain"? Since God does, I'd say that I should. Romans 12:9
Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good.

[George W. Bush]

They sodomize in public bathrooms. They have gay bath houses disguised as health clubs where they have hundreds of sex partners.

So? Tony, lad, we're very familiar with these facts already. Go take a look at Remedy's threads if you want a real eyeful and substantial evidence and studies. He's relentless.

[xzins]

The only church that I have seen Bush attend in DC, and he started there his first week in town, was a black United Methodist church. It was NOT the same as the one attended by the clintons.

[George W. Bush]

It is a position that is based on biblical principle. "Just War" is a similar type of theory.....supposedly biblical

Well, there are a lot of supposedly biblical things that aren't as you are well aware. Let's leave aside Just War notions. Trying to use the Bible hawkishly or dovishly is pretty difficult. It doesn't fit either precisely.

But, to return to my question, where does the Bible ever instruct us to the the sins of other people? (New Testament verses, please)

Not to take is out on you personally but this is one of those mealy-mouthed phrases I've heard about a billion times and I finally realized that it is not only meaningless but is probably unbiblical as well. You just happened to be the first person to use the phrase since I realized it.

Quote some verses that command us or encourage us or merely authorize us to hate the sins of others? Hey, for the purposes of this exercise, I'll even grant you hypothetical status as sinlessly perfect by Wesley's own standards. So, where are the New Testament verses?

[xzins]

I just gave you Rom 12:9. It was hidden in the post, though. Maybe you didn't see it.

Strikes me as a clear, biblical blanket statement.

[George W. Bush]

I just gave you Rom 12:9. It was hidden in the post, though. Maybe you didn't see it.

I just thought you were giving me an off-the-cuff response and hadn't considered it. Look at the verses preceding and following it. Verse 9 is a summary of the duties of Christians toward one another and how Christians should conduct themselves in Christian fellowship.

Are you seriously suggesting that verse 9 in telling us to "abhor that which is evil, cleave to that which is good" is somehow equivalent to "hate the sin, love the sinner"? What about the beginning of the verse: "Let love be without dissimulation."?

I really don't see how you get from that verse, in its proper context, to saying it applies to evangelizing godless sodomites and being allowed to hate their sin while loving them.

I don't think Romans 12:9 proves the clichè. Got anything more direct? Hey, we Calvinists at least have our predestination verses even if you won't agree with us on what they mean.

Maybe I'm just easily annoyed by some of these churchy clichès. I think Falwell was responsible for this one, at least, that's where I heard it first and he keeps repeating it.

[RnMomof7]

I think the Christian site (AFA) has it about right: Bush didn't know about his appointee and would never have appointed him had he known that he held anything remotely close to traditional Christian moral views on the topic of sodomy.
The appointee's problem is that he told the truth. It is a "gay plague". It's just becoming illegal to tell the truth about that well-known elementary fact.

I would say you nailed it. I am waiting for the "Constitutional Party" to make its way to NY (although I doubt many here have even heard of the constitution in this soviet state

[malakhi]

I think Falwell was responsible for this one, at least, that's where I heard it first and he keeps repeating it.

Actually, this expression appears to have originated with that proto-Calvinist Augustine. Cum dilectione hominum et odio vitiorum. "With love for man and hatred of sins". From his monastic rule and/or his Letter 211 (J.-P. Migne (ed.) _Patrologiae Latinae_ (1845), vol. 33).

[George W. Bush]

Okay. I can see you're having a bit of fun with us Calvinist types.

But Augustine's opinions aren't too relevant to non-Romans. And one could say that only some of Augustine's writings interest even the church of Rome. We Calvinists take him seriously on predestination because he argued from scripture on that matter and not merely because we need a big name from the early churches to uphold our position. Well, I'm not sure that came out exactly as intended but my backspace key is broken.

So, do you, angelo, have any scripture that tells us to love others (which of course we do find abundantly) but to hate their sins?

I don't think you can find them in the New Testament.

[malakhi]

Okay. I can see you're having a bit of fun with us Calvinist types.

Moi? ;o)

Actually, this was new information to me, too, when I searched for the origin of the quote.

So, do you, angelo, have any scripture that tells us to love others (which of course we do find abundantly) but to hate their sins?

Well in fact I agree with you that the quote is not scriptural. That is why I did a search to find its actual origin. Lots of people think "the Lord helps those who help themselves" is scriptural, too. Another of those common misconceptions.

[fortheDeclaration]

Your denomination is nothing to be embarrassed about.....except when you claim that others denominations are automatically lost. That doesn't fit the biblical testimony about salavation.

I think they teach that not only do you have to be baptized in water to be saved, but you have to be baptized by the Church of Christ!

[Revelation 911]

BTW, I've been known to cuss . . . :^D

youre makin me look like a chiorboy LOL