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Evolution Disclaimer Supported
The Advocate (Baton Rouge) ^ | 12/11/02 | WILL SENTELL

Posted on 12/11/2002 6:28:08 AM PST by A2J

By WILL SENTELL

wsentell@theadvocate.com

Capitol news bureau

High school biology textbooks would include a disclaimer that evolution is only a theory under a change approved Tuesday by a committee of the state's top school board.

If the disclaimer wins final approval, it would apparently make Louisiana just the second state in the nation with such a provision. The other is Alabama, which is the model for the disclaimer backers want in Louisiana.

Alabama approved its policy six or seven years ago after extensive controversy that included questions over the religious overtones of the issue.

The change approved Tuesday requires Louisiana education officials to check on details for getting publishers to add the disclaimer to biology textbooks.

It won approval in the board's Student and School Standards/ Instruction Committee after a sometimes contentious session.

"I don't believe I evolved from some primate," said Jim Stafford, a board member from Monroe. Stafford said evolution should be offered as a theory, not fact.

Whether the proposal will win approval by the full state Board of Elementary and Secondary Education on Thursday is unclear.

Paul Pastorek of New Orleans, president of the board, said he will oppose the addition.

"I am not prepared to go back to the Dark Ages," Pastorek said.

"I don't think state boards should dictate editorial content of school textbooks," he said. "We shouldn't be involved with that."

Donna Contois of Metairie, chairwoman of the committee that approved the change, said afterward she could not say whether it will win approval by the full board.

The disclaimer under consideration says the theory of evolution "still leaves many unanswered questions about the origin of life.

"Study hard and keep an open mind," it says. "Someday you may contribute to the theories of how living things appeared on earth."

Backers say the addition would be inserted in the front of biology textbooks used by students in grades 9-12, possibly next fall.

The issue surfaced when a committee of the board prepared to approve dozens of textbooks used by both public and nonpublic schools. The list was recommended by a separate panel that reviews textbooks every seven years.

A handful of citizens, one armed with a copy of Charles Darwin's "Origin of the Species," complained that biology textbooks used now are one-sided in promoting evolution uncritically and are riddled with factual errors.

"If we give them all the facts to make up their mind, we have educated them," Darrell White of Baton Rouge said of students. "Otherwise we have indoctrinated them."

Darwin wrote that individuals with certain characteristics enjoy an edge over their peers and life forms developed gradually millions of years ago.

Backers bristled at suggestions that they favor the teaching of creationism, which says that life began about 6,000 years ago in a process described in the Bible's Book of Genesis.

White said he is the father of seven children, including a 10th-grader at a public high school in Baton Rouge.

He said he reviewed 21 science textbooks for use by middle and high school students. White called Darwin's book "racist and sexist" and said students are entitled to know more about controversy that swirls around the theory.

"If nothing else, put a disclaimer in the front of the textbooks," White said.

John Oller Jr., a professor at the University of Louisiana-Lafayette, also criticized the accuracy of science textbooks under review. Oller said he was appearing on behalf of the Louisiana Family Forum, a Christian lobbying group.

Oller said the state should force publishers to offer alternatives, correct mistakes in textbooks and fill in gaps in science teachings. "We are talking about major falsehoods that should be addressed," he said.

Linda Johnson of Plaquemine, a member of the board, said she supports the change. Johnson said the new message of evolution "will encourage students to go after the facts."


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: crevolist; evolution; rades
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To: Doctor Stochastic
Plane geometry proves its own truth as does first order logic. Arithmetic and set theory do not.

I could be a brat and say "take it up with the person who made the observation." Instead, let me thank you, Doc, for putting this information into the record.

4,401 posted on 01/10/2003 11:07:40 AM PST by betty boop
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To: Doctor Stochastic
It can be a bit difficult to distinguish invention from discovery. ... did Beethoven discover or invent his symphonies?

At the risk of being banned, I would suggest that music evolves in the mind of the composer. Ditto for all creative processes. In the case of music I would say there are at least two selectors, one for harmony (sweetness) and one for dissonance (spice, variety, change, surprise, etc).

4,402 posted on 01/10/2003 11:07:44 AM PST by js1138 (I now know.)
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To: PatrickHenry
Yepper.
4,403 posted on 01/10/2003 11:08:08 AM PST by Junior (It burned its little seater.)
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To: Doctor Stochastic
Plane geometry proves its own truth as does first order logic.

The may prove self-consistency, but they do not prove their "truth", that is their axioms.

4,404 posted on 01/10/2003 11:09:33 AM PST by js1138 (I now know.)
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To: betty boop
I agree with [Phaedrus's] assessment.

Good. Perhaps you can answer my two questions in #4312, because I still don't get it.

4,405 posted on 01/10/2003 11:10:00 AM PST by Physicist
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To: Phaedrus; betty boop
Is it just me, or have y'all noticed that this thread has become surreal? Seems to me there are various threads of thoughts on different planes, sometimes meshing and sometimes crossing paths, like a dream come alive. I suspect it is not unlike our unconscious thinking about the deep mysteries of life.
4,406 posted on 01/10/2003 11:10:33 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
Skewered science . . . evolution ! ! !

Main Entry: 2skewer
Function: transitive verb
Date: 1701
1 : to fasten or pierce with or as if with a skewer
2 : to criticize or ridicule sharply and effectively
4,407 posted on 01/10/2003 11:11:27 AM PST by f.Christian
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To: Aric2000
Evolution is a scientific theory that explains how the first life on this planet evolved over billions of years, to the life that we have on the planet now. It does NOT seek to explain how that first life form came to be, that is for the purview of chemistry and biology and genetics. Evolution just tries to put the pieces that we have, and put them together in a cohesive and logical whole.

Life was here, that is how evolution starts, not, "this is what created life", but life was here, and it changed over time. That is the foundation of evolution, life was here, and it changed.

This reasoning seems plausible until one presses it to its logical conclusions. For example, if a person disagrees with an evolutionist on the ‘fact of evolution’, the evolutionist will employ a definition of evolution [“Biological evolution is a change in the genetic characteristics of a population over time”] that makes it impossible to disagree and, if one does argue, then that person comes across as being uninformed or irrational or fanatical. This might be acceptable if only it remained right there.

But it doesn’t! That statement about evolution (which happens to be accurate, i.e., genetic characteristics of populations do vary over time) is subsequently modified / extended throughout the evolutionist's other statements and responses so that not only is the person to accept the (empirically corroborated) fact of change, but also that this change is the sole causing agent for the diversity and complexity within an organism (internal organs, cellular structures, etc.) as well as outside of the organism including Earth’s entire flora and fauna. The metaphysical extrapolation of the data that is required to accomplish this feat is somehow always glossed over by the evolutionist - either by ignorance or by design. What’s more, if we are to remain exclusively within the natural (material) realm then the term ‘evolution’ must somehow be further extended to include life from non-life, i.e., the emergence of life itself must also be accounted for by the ever-stretching definition of evolution.

There’s more. The origin of the basic materials that make up all objects (living or not) must also somehow be accounted for so yet other forms of evolution enter the scene—chemical, stellar and planetary. In fact, the universe itself must also be accounted for by evolution.

Thus, whether you hypothesizes a Big Bang, a quantum fluctuation, aliens from another dimension or some other natural explanation, the universe began and has ‘evolved’ to what it is today.

Few would argue with the notion that ‘things change.’ But to take the step from ‘things change’ to ‘and therefore, that’s how it all got here’ is a leap of blind, irrational faith that would send even the most fanatical snake worshipper reeling.

It is science. To say that evolution isn't science, is intellectual dishonesty and sorry, just plain STUPIDITY!!

The question of origins is largely a matter of history—not the domain of applied science. Contrary to the unilateral denials of many evolutionists, one’s worldview does indeed play heavily on one’s interpretation of scientific data, a phenomenon which is magnified in matters concerning origins, where neither repeatability, nor observation, nor measurement — the three immutable elements of the scientific method — may be employed. Many proponents of evolution nevertheless persist in claiming exclusive “scientific” status for their popularized beliefs, while curtly dismissing (if not angrily deriding) all doubters. That is both unreasonable and unscientific!

4,408 posted on 01/10/2003 11:12:01 AM PST by music_code
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To: betty boop
"take it up with the person who made the observation."

Lurking over your shoulder...

4,409 posted on 01/10/2003 11:16:01 AM PST by js1138 (I now know.)
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To: Alamo-Girl
Seems to me there are various threads of thoughts on different planes, sometimes meshing and sometimes crossing paths, like a dream come alive. I suspect it is not unlike our unconscious thinking about the deep mysteries of life.

Is that anything like resting thought?

4,410 posted on 01/10/2003 11:17:41 AM PST by js1138 (I now know.)
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To: Alamo-Girl
Is it just me, or have y'all noticed that this thread has become surreal? Seems to me there are various threads of thoughts on different planes, sometimes meshing and sometimes crossing paths, like a dream come alive. I suspect it is not unlike our unconscious thinking about the deep mysteries of life.

Yes but not only that. Civility is breaking out all over. This is not "your typical thread" but I'm liking the change. Would we make James Joyce proud?

4,411 posted on 01/10/2003 11:20:22 AM PST by Phaedrus
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To: Tribune7
Paganism, certain types that is, have always taught that.

There are many different types of paganism, the most popular worships a Mother Goddess, who loves everyone as her own children, because she created us.

That's just one, there are others, but I do not have time to go into it right now. I am taking my children on a little field trip.
4,412 posted on 01/10/2003 11:21:12 AM PST by Aric2000 (The Theory of Evolution is Science, ID and Creationism are Religious, Any Questions?)
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To: js1138
Lurking over your shoulder...

You are far better qualified (I suspect) to haggle with Doc over this issue than I am. :^) Sorry -- I should have bumped that to you too, js.

4,413 posted on 01/10/2003 11:23:29 AM PST by betty boop
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To: js1138
Thank you for your post!

Is that anything like resting thought?

Indeed, the difference being whether or not you are awake (aware.) IMHO, it is always best to clear the deck of any intentional thoughts or presumptions and let it roll. LOL!

4,414 posted on 01/10/2003 11:25:35 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
Is it just me, or have y'all noticed that this thread has become surreal? Seems to me there are various threads of thoughts on different planes, sometimes meshing and sometimes crossing paths, like a dream come alive.

A free-exchange of ideas can do that. It amazing, ain't it, what can happen in the absence of a color-coded thread retardant?

4,415 posted on 01/10/2003 11:26:43 AM PST by Condorman ("I'm going into a 7th-level yoga-hopping trance." --Dangermouse)
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To: music_code
The question of origins is largely a matter of history—not the domain of applied science.

There is written history and there is "pre-history".

...in matters concerning origins, where neither repeatability, nor observation, nor measurement — the three immutable elements of the scientific method — may be employed.

The assertions being made about radioactive decay can be used to make a point here. Decay rates have been studied, restudied, pondered, graphed and measured for a hundred years. They are not just as reliable as Newton's law of gravity, they are more reliable. Just as a planitarium program can plot the position of the planets backwards through time, physicists can plot the age of rocks backwards through time. If you try to deny this you reveal yourself an ignoramus of the first order.

You can, of course, play word games and assert that god created the world and the universe with an apparent age, but you have to assert it as a miracle, not the subject of science.

4,416 posted on 01/10/2003 11:27:17 AM PST by js1138 (I now know.)
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To: Phaedrus
Thank you so much for your reply! And yes, I'm liking the civility a lot. I would hope everyone would be pleased.
4,417 posted on 01/10/2003 11:27:25 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Condorman
Thank you so much for your post! I'm loving the free exchange of ideas and especially what appears to be a real caring for one another which underlies all this civility.
4,418 posted on 01/10/2003 11:30:07 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: betty boop
You are far better qualified (I suspect)...

(blushing) Aw shucks!

4,419 posted on 01/10/2003 11:32:14 AM PST by js1138
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To: Alamo-Girl
I'm liking the civility a lot.

A successful party depends not only on who shows up, but on who doesn't.

4,420 posted on 01/10/2003 11:32:43 AM PST by PatrickHenry
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