Intelligent Design case decided - Dover, Pennsylvania, School Board loses [Fox News Alert]

Fox News | 12/20/05

[snarks_when_bored]

Fox News alert a few minutes ago says the Dover School Board lost their bid to have Intelligent Design introduced into high school biology classes. The federal judge ruled that their case was based on the premise that Darwin's Theory of Evolution was incompatible with religion, and that this premise is false.

[MineralMan]

"Why do you assume creation is a myth?"

Well, let's look at that question. Every religion, from the smallest native American religon to the largest religion, has a creation story as part of that religion's teachings.

They differ largely. Maybe one says the Crow created the universe. Another has a Coyote. The Hindu religion, as old as Judaism, has three versions of creation, all related, but somewhat different.

My guess is that you would classify all of those as myths. Yet, your religion's story of creation is correct? Sorry, I just believe that your religion's story is a myth, just like all the others.

You may, if you wish, present some argument to demonstrate why your religion's creation story is more valid than that of, say, the Chumash Indian creation story.

I'll be waiting.

[Shadowfax]

Excellent input. Thank you. I will review and consider this.

It may be that my arguments need to be re-evaluated. Or it may be that my definitions are at fault again. For example, the hypothetical changes in a fish may technically lead to a new species of a fish. (Although I'm not admitting that until I review this information you've provided.) But for the theory of evolution to be true, a fish would have to evolve into something that is not a fish and is more complex than a fish. All by itself without intelligent intervention.

Such a change would have to be observable, reproducible, and predictive. Until it is, you are not talking about the scientific method.

Again, thanks for the input.

[narby]

God also created the process by which hurricanes form at regular times and in regular ways.

Just like He created evolution. A process by which species adapt over long periods of time, and which we have voluminous evidence of.

[Fester Chugabrew]

"science does not address the existence or nonexistence of supernatural entities".

That ain't what the judge says. He says science cannot entertain any notion of a higher intelligence, and thus makes a statement on behalf of science that not even good science should make. He's a dogmatist, but doesn't know it or admit it.

[Coyoteman]

The fossil history is non-existent

Non-existent? Who are these handsome critters, then?

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Figure 1.4.4. Fossil hominid skulls. Some of the figures have been modified for ease of comparison (only left-right mirroring or removal of a jawbone). (Images © 2000 Smithsonian Institution.)

(A) Pan troglodytes, chimpanzee, modern
(B) Australopithecus africanus, STS 5, 2.6 My
(C) Australopithecus africanus, STS 71, 2.5 My
(D) Homo habilis, KNM-ER 1813, 1.9 My
(E) Homo habilis, OH24, 1.8 My
(F) Homo rudolfensis, KNM-ER 1470, 1.8 My
(G) Homo erectus, Dmanisi cranium D2700, 1.75 My
(H) Homo ergaster (early H. erectus), KNM-ER 3733, 1.75 My
(I) Homo heidelbergensis, "Rhodesia man," 300,000 - 125,000 y
(J) Homo sapiens neanderthalensis, La Ferrassie 1, 70,000 y
(K) Homo sapiens neanderthalensis, La Chappelle-aux-Saints, 60,000 y
(L) Homo sapiens neanderthalensis, Le Moustier, 45,000 y
(M) Homo sapiens sapiens, Cro-Magnon I, 30,000 y
(N) Homo sapiens sapiens, modern

[CarolinaGuitarman]

" In other words you don't address the points that I have made."

Yes I did, you just didn't like the answers.

[Protagoras]

What? You don't have churches in your area? I would leave!

"BTW, the government schools in my area do not have Sunday classes nor a pulpit."

They do have remedial reading courses.

Christianity is discussed in philosophy classes and history classes.

Excellent.

Religion is not a scientific theory and doesn't belong in science classes.

I never asserted it does. Perhaps you really DO need that reading class.

[WhistlingPastTheGraveyard]

In other words accept our theory as fact and don't dare to point out any of the glaring holes in our theory or we'll call you "The American Taliban" "Jesus Freaks" or worse.

The god of infinite nothingness demands all competing theories be ridiculed and silenced. They're just doing the lord's work.

[eleni121]

It has taken many years and millions of lives to discredit and undermine Marxists and Freud is almost gone...it's going to take the same commitment to get rid of the dangerous old fool Darwin. Some people are still firmly stuck in the 19th and 19th century.

[Smogger]

No you didn't, but if you continue to assert that you did vehemently maybe that will make it true.

[Stultis]

Darwinism's most celebrated experts -- that is, the scientists who understand the theory most purely and deeply -- admit that it is an intrinsically atheistic theory.

Admit? But then the example given is E. O. Wilson! Wilson, along with Dawkins, are the outstanding "scientific atheists" in the field. Outstanding in that they are NOT typical. Saying E.O. Wilson "admits" that evolution is inherently atheistic is just like saying David Duke "admits" that whites or superior to blacks!

It pretends that a disinterested person concedes a case he would not naturally tend to. This pretense is false. Wilson is a controversialist who holds an opinion about what science (not just evolution) implicates that most scientists, even those how may personally be atheists or agnostics, DO NOT agree with.

[saganite]

I see. Insults are your only argument now. Thanks for clarifying your position.

[RightWhale]

One more time while I still have this in clipboard, those defendants are out of business in that school district:

NOW, THEREFORE, IT IS ORDERED THAT:

1. A declaratory judgment is hereby issued in favor of Plaintiffs pursuant
to 28 U.S.C. §§ 2201, 2202, and 42 U.S.C. § 1983 such that
Defendants’ ID Policy violates the Establishment Clause of the First
Amendment of the Constitution of the United States and Art. I, § 3 of
the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

2. Pursuant to Fed.R.Civ.P. 65, Defendants are permanently enjoined
from maintaining the ID Policy in any school within the Dover Area
School District.

3. Because Plaintiffs seek nominal damages, Plaintiffs shall file with the
Court and serve on Defendants, their claim for damages and a verified
statement of any fees and/or costs to which they claim entitlement.
Defendants shall have the right to object to any such fees and costs to
the extent provided in the applicable statutes and court rules.

[Protagoras]

LOL, in other words, you don't know.

YOU used the term. It is incumbent upon you to define your terms.

'Tis not I who is ignorant lad.

[MineralMan]

"How does this case get to the Supreme Court?
"

It's already been there. Read the decision...the whole decision. You'll see the references to earlier SCOTUS decisions. The current SCOTUS will never see this case.

[bobdsmith]

Because we have scientifically proven how lightning is generated.

We've shown how it can be generated and can hypothesise that a lot of lightning is created this way. But that doesn't rule out some of the lightning on earth being caused by something else..

If we could reproduce the "evolution" of the human species in a lab, then there would be no reason to consider "intelligent design".

But it would not disprove intelligent design.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

What point didn't I address?

[MineralMan]

"Here here!"

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There there.

[narby]

[Not to mention the Theory of Gravity, Atomic Theory and Germ Theory.] Actually, those are no longer theories.

LOL. Yes they are. Which is why you don't understand what a scientific "theory" is. Educate yourself.

[PatrickHenry]

How about this one for the Your Brain on Creationism list?
"Screw your indirect evidence."

Dumb, but not dumb enough.