Actually my point was more to the manner in which one objected. But that's another story...
Let's just drop the whole thing. Hyper-this, hyper-that...bollocks on the whole lot.
Okay...
Posted on 12/16/2004 1:23:28 PM PST by Gamecock
Isn't that at odds with the concept that the government was based on the Calvinist belief of total depravity?
I think the reality is that you had both influences. You had Madison, who drafted the Constitution using his Calvinist background (and training at Princeton) to influence the way he thought and wrote.
But others including Jefferson, Locke and Paine believed in the "goodness of man."
Just like Jefferson's friend, Ronald Reagan...
"I know in my heart that man is good.
That what is right will always eventually triumph.
And there's purpose and worth to each and every life."
Perhaps it's the thinly disguised glee with which his supporters pile on, trying to evoke a reaction. Personally, after having enough exchanges with ctd, I know enough about him to know that he is inconsequential, and best ignored. He holds some ideas and beliefs that are marginal at best, and delusional at worst. His opinion doesn't matter to me, nor should my opinion of him matter to him. By your reasoning, if he objects to my assessment of him, it must mean there's some truth to what I say. If you object to what Dr. E, AJ Armitage, or anyone else says, there must be some truth to it.
Let's just drop the whole thing. Hyper-this, hyper-that...bollocks on the whole lot.
Actually my point was more to the manner in which one objected. But that's another story...
Let's just drop the whole thing. Hyper-this, hyper-that...bollocks on the whole lot.
Okay...
As for Reagans's statement, I'll break it down:
I know in my heart that man is good.
A charitable attitude, although somewhat naive. This is even taught in some churches. It is an optimistic, if naive thought, and Reagan may have believed this as a matter of principle, but he also recognized when people were NOT good, and dealt with them accordingly.
That what is right will always eventually triumph.
Optimistic, and ultimately an affirmation of the supremacy and Sovereignty of God, the very definition of what is Right. I seriously doubt any Christian would object to this portion of the statement, because the bible indicates that this is precisely what will take place.
And there's purpose and worth to each and every life.
Again, a charitable attitude, and there is at least some biblical basis for it. There are both positive and negative aspects to his statement that there is purpose and worth to every life.
Let me ask you this. Do you agree with Reaqan's statement?
As an overall attitude, Reagan's statement is the lubricant of social interaction. He himself summed it up in three words: Trust, but verify.
Nice pictures. What's yer point?
Hitler's dead. He had his chance.
There was a time when God did love him. But there was also a time when it became evident that Hitler had hardened his heart and set it on a certain direction.
God used that, imo, to bring about the restoration of Israel. God was right to make Hitler a vessel for wrath in the hands of the Almighty.
Funny that you show the so-called "Servetus Card" as an Ace of Spades, when in reality it's the 2 of clubs. You must think that it's your "ace in the hole". It's not.
This is the core of the Arminian error, x. Logically and Scripturally, it is vacant.
God made Hitler. Every hair on his head was numbered by God. Did God NOT know what Hitler would do on his 10th birthday when He made Hitler? Did God not know the day on which Hitler would lose his first tooth? Did God not know on what side Hitler would part his hair? Did God not know from before the foundation of time that Hitler would become the personification of man's basest self and that he would one day try (and nearly succeed) to destroy the entire Jewish population?
Of course He did. And yet He made him anyway. GOD made Hitler, just like He made viruses and earthquakes and flies and T.B. and Stalin and Pol Pot. He made them all for the same reason He makes everything -- because He wants to.
Otherwise you have a madman like Hitler loose in creation, destroying God's saints, reviling His name, who is separate from God's plan for His creation and capable of foiling God's sovereign intent for the universe.
And that's impossible.
The Arminian insistence that God once loved someone like Hitler but Hitler lost his chance at salvation is at best sentimental. But at worst, it leads to enormous confusion about God and man's place in His creation and blurs our understanding of WHY Christ came to earth in the first place.
Christ came to gather His sheep. Hitler was NEVER among the sheep. Thank you, God, that as best as we may know, you and I are. And we were from before time BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT GOD WANTED.
What a fearful world it would be to think Hitler "disappointed" God and that Christ's death on the cross was not enough to save him.
Christ's death on the cross is an act of perfection. It accomplished EXACTLY what it was supposed to accomplish.
Thank you, God. Nothing I've done in my life has deserved His sacrifice. And the same goes for Hitler.
Hi, DrE.
I continue to think by what you write that you are not understanding what I believe. It's been a few years, so I suppose there's not much reason to hope things will change.
I've been told that I don't understand what "y'all" believe. Maybe it's a blind spot. Who knows??
In any case, Merry Christmas to you In the name of the All-Knowing One, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
It's just that that view is still hedging God's ability to hold everything in creation in the palm of His hand.
And that's a GOOD thing.
Does God love Herod?
So He stopped loving him at a certain point?
Playing the Hitler card now, are we?
Hitler's a joker in the deck, put there by God when He rigged the game from before the foundation of the world.
But the Dealer's in control. He marked every card before He cut the deck. It's His table, His chips and His jackpot. He deals and we play out the hands He's dealt us.
And He always wins.
Thank God, He's chosen to share the winnings with you and me.
Sorry, but it simply does not exist.
It is merely a figment of your imagination.
Sorry counselor,* I see it in every Bible study that I attend with an Arminian. In each one of them I see fear, anxiety and confusion. I don't see any of them resting on Christ's perfect work. Each and every one of them is constantly attempting to improve on their salvation, thinking that somehow they must do more than have faith.
*With a little "c"
The relieved and the Calvinists.
Actually, Marlowe, you already played that card YOURSELF, albeit in a much more offensive manner, on this very thread just two days ago....
"Using that logic we could just as easily state that Lutheranism was responsible for the Holocaust"
13 posted on 12/16/2004 2:17:35 PM PST by P-Marlowe
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