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To: xzins
There was a time when God did love him. But there was also a time when it became evident that Hitler had hardened his heart and set it on a certain direction.

This is the core of the Arminian error, x. Logically and Scripturally, it is vacant.

God made Hitler. Every hair on his head was numbered by God. Did God NOT know what Hitler would do on his 10th birthday when He made Hitler? Did God not know the day on which Hitler would lose his first tooth? Did God not know on what side Hitler would part his hair? Did God not know from before the foundation of time that Hitler would become the personification of man's basest self and that he would one day try (and nearly succeed) to destroy the entire Jewish population?

Of course He did. And yet He made him anyway. GOD made Hitler, just like He made viruses and earthquakes and flies and T.B. and Stalin and Pol Pot. He made them all for the same reason He makes everything -- because He wants to.

Otherwise you have a madman like Hitler loose in creation, destroying God's saints, reviling His name, who is separate from God's plan for His creation and capable of foiling God's sovereign intent for the universe.

And that's impossible.

The Arminian insistence that God once loved someone like Hitler but Hitler lost his chance at salvation is at best sentimental. But at worst, it leads to enormous confusion about God and man's place in His creation and blurs our understanding of WHY Christ came to earth in the first place.

Christ came to gather His sheep. Hitler was NEVER among the sheep. Thank you, God, that as best as we may know, you and I are. And we were from before time BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT GOD WANTED.

What a fearful world it would be to think Hitler "disappointed" God and that Christ's death on the cross was not enough to save him.

Christ's death on the cross is an act of perfection. It accomplished EXACTLY what it was supposed to accomplish.

Thank you, God. Nothing I've done in my life has deserved His sacrifice. And the same goes for Hitler.

268 posted on 12/18/2004 9:02:30 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg (There are very few shades of gray.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

Hi, DrE.

I continue to think by what you write that you are not understanding what I believe. It's been a few years, so I suppose there's not much reason to hope things will change.

I've been told that I don't understand what "y'all" believe. Maybe it's a blind spot. Who knows??

In any case, Merry Christmas to you In the name of the All-Knowing One, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.


269 posted on 12/18/2004 9:08:16 AM PST by xzins (The Party Spirit -- the major issue that keeps me from taking them seriously.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; xzins
Did God NOT know what Hitler would do on his 10th birthday when He made Hitler? Did God not know the day on which Hitler would lose his first tooth?

It does not work the way you think it works. If what you say is true, clearly Jesus would have known the day and the hour of His return.

Mar 13:32 But of that day and [that] hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, [even] to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Considering our modern understanding of linearities and non-linearities, both are true. Calvin couldn't conceive of the Theory of Relativity. When Jesus appeared in the upper room, he displayed a non-linearity. Phillip being moved to the desert was a non-linearity. God is Sovereign because He is not constrained by our linear space-time. Within our space-time we have provably, practical free-will, but it is always subject to God's Sovereignty because He is not constrained. Both are truly reality.

Jhn 1:12
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: (emphasis added)

Our active participation is a requirement, however it is not worthy of merit. Looking to the cross is analogous to looking to the brass serpent. No kudos involved.

Jhn 1:13 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

No man can merit Salvation, only receive it. We are imprisoned on death row when we are exposed to the Gospel, and we choose to take the pardon by recognizing the futility of our imprisonment (repentance), or we choose to reject the offer for death and eternal damnation knowing full well.

Rom 1:20
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

310 posted on 12/18/2004 12:57:17 PM PST by bondserv (Alignment is critical! † [Check out my profile page])
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