Posted on 03/24/2015 1:30:58 PM PDT by RnMomof7
It has been argued that Mary is the creature closest to God. Moreover, while Christ is the mediator of all grace between God and creation, Mary is the mediator of all grace between Christ and humanity. Consequently, Mary is a powerful intercessor for all who turn to her (see Zoltan, 1994, emp. added). The Bible clearly teaches that Mary is not Deity and should not be worshipped as such (see Pinedo, 2009). If she is not Deity, is she the closest human being to Deity? Does she play an active role in heaven, interceding for individual Christians? Does she make intercession for us in prayer or have an effect on our salvation?
When referring to Deity, the Bible mentions only the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19; cf. Matthew 3:16-17; John 10:30; 17:21; Acts 5:3-4). Mary is never mentioned in that context. Further, the heaven where God and His angels reside (Deuteronomy 10:14; 26:15; 1 Kings 8:27,30) is not yet inhabited by human beings. Jesus said: No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man (John 3:13, emp. added). These words represent the truth about all the people who have left this world (including Mary). No one is in heaven because heaven is reserved for all faithful servants of God since time began (cf. John 14:1-3). Not until after the Second Coming of Christ and the final Judgment will it become home for the faithful, both living and dead (Matthew 25:31-46;
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18).
The idea that Mary occupies a special place in heaven, close to the Son, is a tradition. It shows a lack of understanding concerning biblical teachings on the afterlife. In Luke 16:19-31, Jesus explained that the dead (saved and lost) go to a place called hades (16:23, Hebrew sheol)a spiritual waiting place that separates the consolation of the righteous (referred to as paradise, cf. Luke 23:43) from the torment of the wicked. In hades, the righteous begin to taste part of the joy that awaits them in eternity, while the wicked begin to taste part of the suffering that awaits them. Hades is not the dwelling place of God; God dwells in heaven. Mary, along with Abraham and other faithful servants from the past, is waiting in hades until its dead are delivered up, when the Lord returns to judge each man and woman according to his or her works (Revelation 20:13). In this spiritual realm that precedes heaven, there is nothing that those who are there can do for those who are here (Luke 16:27-31).
Catholics have given the title of Intercessor for the Saints to Mary, although nowhere in the Bible is it applied to her. Intercession means seeking the presence and hearing of God on behalf of others (Vine, 1966, 2:267). There are only two areas in which Christians need intercession: salvation and prayers. If Mary is now, or ever has been, involved as Intercessor for the Saints, there should be ample evidence in Scripture.
Concerning salvation, the apostle Peter clearly stated that there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved (Acts 4:12, NASB). Of course, he was referring to Jesus Christ. Paul wrote: [T]here is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus (1 Timothy 2:5). The Hebrews writer added: Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He [Jesus] always lives to make intercession for them (7:25). Jesus is the one and only Mediator (Intercessor) between God and Man, and He lives to continually intercede for those who come to God.
But what about prayer? Does Mary intercede in the prayers of Christians? No, she does not. This intercession also belongs to Jesus. When teaching His disciples to pray to the Father (Matthew 6:9), Jesus did not teach them to pray to (or through) Mary. And yet, Catholicism created a prayerthe Hail Maryto include the words Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of death. In John 14:13-14, Jesus declared: And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything in My name, I will do it (cf. John 16:24). Jesus is the only One Who can mediate or intercede in our prayers, since [a]ll things that the Father has are [His] (John 16:15). If all things that the Father has are the Sons, then what is left for Mary?
The prerogative of intercession supposedly given to Mary also is argued from the fact that she interceded before Jesus on behalf of a family at a wedding in Cana because the wine was running out during the celebration (John 2:2-3). This simple, solitary, tiny thread of argumentation, lost in a loom of confusion, has been misused extensively by the supporters of Marianism. By going to Jesus with a request for help, Mary was not intervening on behalf of anyones spiritual needs; she only reported the situation to Jesus. Moreover, consider Jesus response: Woman, what does your concern have to do with Me? (John 2:4). With these words, He emphasized that Marys concerns did not dictate His actions. Whatever He did in Cana that day would be according to Gods will, not because of human or motherly influences or desires.
If the situation recorded in John chapter two establishes Mary as the Intercessor of the Saints, what should we conclude from Matthew 8:5-13 and other passages that tell of similar circumstances? In Matthew chapter eight, a centurion interceded before Jesus for his servant who was in bed, paralyzed, and greatly tormented. Seeing the centurions faith, Jesus performed a miracle and cured the sick servant. Should we consider this centurion as the Intercessor for the Paralytics, the Sick, and the Tormented? Should any paralytic, or anyone suffering from physical or mental illness, pray to this man of great faith, asking him to intercede with God on their behalf? [The Bible further condemns the act of invoking the dead (cf. Deuteronomy 18:10-13; 1 Chronicles 10:13-14; Isaiah 8:19).] Neither this centurion, nor Abraham, nor Mary, nor anyone elseliving or deadcan intercede before the throne of God in favor of the faithful Christian, except Jesus Christ Himself.
In Luke 1:47, Mary raised her voice and declared: My spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior (emp. added). If she had a Savior, then she needed salvation. And, if she needed salvation, then she also needed the only Intercessor of salvationJesus Christ (Hebrews 7:25). Therefore, Marys condition was no different from every human being before or after her. She sinned (Romans 3:23), and she needed the only Intercessor who could make peace between her and God (2 Corinthians 5:18-19; Colossians 1:20). Just as Jesus interceded on behalf of Mary before He died to make sure her physical needs were met (John 19:26-27), He interceded on her behalf to make sure her spiritual needs were met. Mary cannot intercede for any Christian since she, herself, needed intercession.
Finally, although Christians are commanded to pray for one another (1 Thessalonians 5:25; Hebrews 13:18; James 5:16), Jesus is our only Mediator in prayer. Through Him our prayers are answered.
Pinedo, Moisés (2009), Is Mary the Mother of God? [On-line], URL: http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/240077.
Vine, W.E. (1966), An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words (Old Tappan, NJ: Fleming H. Revell).
Zoltan, Abraham (1994), A Detailed Guide to Our Ladys Rosary, [On-line], URL: http://www.blessedtrinityorlando.org/rosary.html.
I'm sorry but I don't need Mary to intercede for me with Yeshua. I go directly to Him.
Um......what? Pleas show support from scripture for that contention.
Haven’t the foggiest about what your wrote. Never said anything about that.
You were included as a courtesy ping because I was responding to a ping to you.
Okay - sorry, probably forgot. I got some posts on some thread re: Catholic church when I wasn’t supposed to be there; invite only so I thought this was from that.
R/Janey
I have received too many favors and graces through his intercession to slight him that way. He deserves better.
Great St. Joseph, son of David, Spouse of Mary undefiled; Guardian of the Holy Family, Father of the Holy Child. God presented thee with blessings, Glorified thy life obscure; Made thee guardian of all virgins, Consolation of the poor.
Pope Pius IX proclaimed Saint Joseph the Patron of the Universal Church in 1870, the unofficial patron against doubt and hesitation, as well as the patron saint of fighting communism, and of a happy death.[57] Having died in the 'arms of Jesus and Mary' according to Catholic tradition, he is considered the model of the pious believer who receives grace at the moment of death.Saint Joseph is the patron saint of a number of cities, regions and countries, among them the Americas, Canada, China, Croatia, Mexico, Korea, Austria, Belgium, Peru, the Philippines and Vietnam, as well as of families, fathers, expectant mothers (pregnant women), travelers, immigrants, house sellers and buyers, craftsmen, engineers, and working people in general.
Such a joy and a blessing!
Peace be with you!
Please show scripture to support that contention.
Galatians 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
So you disagree with what the Holy Spirit had written in scripture?
Our versions of Scripture in forum vary, as more often than not do our interpretations. I offer no citations here. It's simply what we believe.
God bless you!
As previously, our versions of Scripture in forum vary, as more often than not do our interpretations. I offer no citations here. It's simply what we as Catholics believe. God bless you!
"Behold, Your father and I have been anxiously looking for You.
If that line were to be taken literally and out of context, one could contend that Jesus was not the Son of God. A person such as myself could easily make that misinterpretation.
I am grateful for my Catholic Faith to guide me. Yes, there are faults with any "organization" religious or secular. But for me, the Deposit of Faith from the Holy Spirit down through the ages, outweighs any of these.
There are many paths to God*, and, as I've said from Day 1, I'm not here to convert anyone. May we all meet one day together in Heaven! But the illustration above is, for me, yet another reason I myself hold so dearly to my Catholic Faith.
*The Second Vatican Council speaks of salvation outside the Church in Lumen Gentium, nos. 14 and 16. Here are the pertinent sections from those two articles: 14. This Sacred Council wishes to turn its attention firstly to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mk 16:16; Jn 3:5) and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church. Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved. [. . .] 16. [. . .] Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience. Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life. Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is looked upon by the Church as a preparation for the Gospel. She knows that it is given by Him who enlightens all men so that they may finally have life.
Well, that’s fair. At least you don’t claim it’s based on scripture.
Then you should ask Him what purpose His mother might have in your life.
His mother has no purpose in my life. Yeshua is the purpose in my life.
The passage you quoted is emphasizing that we are born of a free woman Sarah and not a slave Agar. We are the spiritual children of Israel, and the children of promise. That freedom was purchased for us by Jesus Christ, but it was dependent on the “fiat” of that great and glorious second Eve, Mary, who is the mother of all those who are saved. Just as sin came to us through Eve, so also salvation came to us through Mary. Think of those great lines from Handel’s Messiah that speak of sin coming through the voluntary action of one man, and salvation coming to us through the act of the God Man:
“For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. “
There are great parallels there.
But did you ask Him?
So then Catholics put Mary in the place of Sarah?
Why should I have to? I don’t need Mary to intercede for me with Yeshua. I have one and only one Savior. Mary fulfilled her purpose in life by giving G-d the Son his human form.
You should not be afraid to ask Him.
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