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Is There A Purgatory?
In Plain Site ^ | 02/26/2015 | Jason Engwer

Posted on 02/26/2015 1:41:17 PM PST by RnMomof7

"in purgatory the souls of those 'who died in the charity of God and truly repentant, but who had not made satisfaction with adequate penance for their sins and omissions,' are cleansed after death with punishments designed to purge away their debt." - Second Vatican Council, "Sacred Liturgy", "Apostolic Constitution on the Revision of Indulgences", no. 3

The Roman Catholic Church teaches that Christians may have to suffer in Purgatory before going to Heaven in order to complete the atonement for their sins. The Bible tells us, however, that Christ has already, by Himself, suffered to atone for all sins (Hebrews 1:3, Hebrews 9-10). The Catholic Church claims that a person can be forgiven of a sin, yet have to suffer to further atone for the "temporal" portion of that sin. Supposedly, the eucharist, an indulgence, or something else can be offered to complete the atonement for a sin that has been forgiven. Yet, the Bible teaches:

The concept of a person being forgiven of a sin, yet still needing to make offerings to atone for that sin, is contradicted by scripture. There are consequences to sin, and God disciplines His children (Hebrews 12:6-7), but never for atonement. Only Christ, the just, could suffer once and for all for the atonement of the unjust (1 Peter 3:18). Christians are already perfected (Hebrews 10:14) and complete (Colossians 2:10) in Christ, even before they've been completely sanctified. All suffering for atonement was accomplished by Christ Himself (Hebrews 9-10), eliminating any need for a Purgatory. The completion of the Christian's sanctification, which has nothing to do with atoning for sins, will take place "in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye" (1 Corinthians 15:52). Christians are sanctified in this life, but that process of sanctification will abruptly be completed at the end of this life through God's power (1 Corinthians 15:52-53, Philippians 3:21), not through suffering in Purgatory.

The scriptures repeatedly refer to believers being at ease, experiencing peace, being with the Lord, etc. upon death or being raptured. Rather than suffering in Purgatory, believers are to expect to go to Heaven upon death or rapture:

The doctrine of Purgatory, like so much else the Roman Catholic Church teaches, was a gradual post-apostolic development. Though Catholic apologists often cite prayers for the dead as evidence of early belief in Purgatory, prayers for the dead are never encouraged in the hundreds of scriptural passages that mention prayer. And even the prayers for the dead that became popular in the early post-apostolic era don't support Purgatory. As William Webster explains in The Church of Rome at the Bar of History (Carlisle, Pennsylvania: The Banner of Truth Trust, 1995):

Though Catholic apologists often quote men like Tertullian and Origen referring to something resembling Purgatory, what they believed in was only an early form of the Roman Catholic doctrine of Purgatory, which would still take centuries longer to develop into what it is today. The earliest post-apostolic writers, who predate Tertullian and Origen by about a hundred years or more, had no concept of a Purgatory.

Clement of Rome, the earliest of the church fathers, writes about Peter, Paul, and some deceased Corinthian presbyters being in Heaven:

Papias, a Christian of the late first and early second centuries, wrote concerning Christians and the afterlife:

Papias refers to different degrees of reward in Heaven (1 Corinthians 3:11-15), but says nothing of Christians suffering in Purgatory.

Polycarp, a disciple of the apostle John, wrote:

When Polycarp died as a martyr, an account of his martyrdom was written and circulated among the churches afterward, part of which reads:

Catholic apologists may attempt to avoid the implications of these comments by suggesting that these people were viewed as going right to Heaven only because they died as martyrs. However, the concept that martyrs would not have to go to Purgatory is a later concept, one which we can't read back into the writings of this time. And not all of the people mentioned in the comments above died as martyrs anyway. The earliest post-apostolic Christians, like the apostolic Christians, did not believe in a Purgatory.

Catholics suggest that Purgatory is at least alluded to in passages such as Matthew 5:26, Matthew 12:32, 1 Corinthians 3:15, Colossians 1:24, and 1 Peter 3:19-20. Do such passages actually support Purgatory, though?

Matthew 5:26 is part of an analogy Jesus makes concerning the sin of hatred. Catholic apologists suggest that since Jesus refers to a person remaining in prison until he's "paid the last cent", that might be a reference to people suffering in Purgatory until their sins have been completely atoned for. But if Jesus is referring to the afterlife, as opposed to just referring to the consequences of sin in this life, He's referring to Hell, not Purgatory. In verse 22, He mentions Hell. Somebody who goes into eternity without having the sin of hatred atoned for would go to Hell, not any Purgatory. The person would indeed be there until he had "paid the last cent", but we know from other passages that the price is paid eternally (Matthew 25:46, Revelation 21:10).

Matthew 12:32 doesn't actually support Purgatory either. In the parallel passages in the other gospels (Mark 3:29, Luke 12:10), the sin is described as "never" being forgiven and "not" being forgiven. Obviously, the message is that blaspheming the Holy Spirit is an eternal sin. Many people believe, as I do, that this sin must be a rejection of Christ, since that's the only sin that would keep us from accepting forgiveness for every other sin. Just because Matthew 12:32 mentions that a sin won't be forgiven in the afterlife, that doesn't mean that people have an opportunity to have sins forgiven through Purgatory. The Catholic Church teaches that Purgatory is for the atonement of sins that are already forgiven, so the passage isn't even relevant.

1 Corinthians 3:15, another passage often cited in support of Purgatory, is about works being evaluated. Paul uses the imagery of fire, but the works are burned, not the person. Since Paul writes that even a person without any good works can be saved (1 Corinthians 3:15), as long as he's resting on the foundation of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 3:11), the passage actually contradicts Catholic teaching about salvation and works rather than supporting Catholic teaching about Purgatory.

Colossians 1:24 also has nothing to do with any Purgatory. Christ alone suffered once and for all to atone for all sins (Isaiah 53:5, 53:10-11, Hebrews 1:3, Hebrews 9-10, 1 Peter 3:18, 1 John 1:7). Christians are released from sin through His blood (Revelation 1:5). They don't have a shackle remaining on one of their legs that has to be burned away in Purgatory. What is Colossians 1:24 about, then? It's about Christ's ministerial suffering, not His redemptive suffering. In other words, Christ alone suffered for our redemption, but He didn't endure all of the suffering needed to accomplish everything that the church is to accomplish. In that regard, there is suffering that remains to be endured by individual Christians throughout history. John Walvoord and Roy Zuck write:

Warren Wiersbe writes:

William MacDonald writes in his Believer's Bible Commentary (Nashville, Tennessee: Thomas Nelson Publishers, Inc., 1995):

Catholic apologists often claim that they don't deny the sufficiency of Christ's finished work of redemption, yet their interpretation of Colossians 1:24 does deny it. Paul refers to something that is actually lacking in Christ's suffering. It isn't possible, then, to claim that Paul is referring to Christ's redemptive suffering while claiming, at the same time, that Christ's redemptive suffering is sufficient. The passage obviously has nothing to do with Christ's redemptive suffering, making it irrelevant to Purgatory, indulgences, and every other false doctrine for which Catholic apologists cite this passage as support.

1 Peter 3:19-20, though often cited in support of Purgatory, also fails to actually support the doctrine. This passage is one of the most controversial in all of the Bible. Nobody knows who the "spirits in prison" are. The passage may just mean that Christ told the souls in Hell about what He had accomplished at Calvary, which could have saved them if only they had believed. There are other possible interpretations as well. The reference in verse 20 to the people having been "disobedient" suggests that what's being discussed is Hell, not Heaven or any Purgatory. Whatever Peter is referring to, the passage isn't enough of a basis upon which to build a doctrine such as Purgatory, especially when so many other passages contradict the doctrine.

Catholic apologists anachronistically read Purgatory into passages of the New Testament, but none of the passages they cite actually support the concept. Other passages contradict the doctrine.

Not only is the doctrine of Purgatory not supported by anything Jesus and the apostles taught, but it also has led many people into disobeying God and following false gospels. The Protestant historian Philip Schaff wrote, concerning the selling of indulgences:

The truth is that there is no Purgatory. Even when the apostle Paul knew he was imperfect (Philippians 3:12), he knew he would go to be with the Lord when he died (Philippians 1:21-23). We read in scripture:

People go to Heaven because of what Christ has done for them, not because of what they've done for Christ. The ungodly person who believes in Christ while not working (Romans 4:5-6) is assured of avoiding God's wrath (Romans 5:9-10) as a free gift of God's grace (Romans 6:23). God invites anybody who thirsts to...



TOPICS: Apologetics; Evangelical Christian; Mainline Protestant; Theology
KEYWORDS: biblicallyfactual; christ; faith; salvation; truthful
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To Roman Catholics the "doctrine" of purgatory offers some "solace" and comfort. They understand that nothing unclean can enter into the presence of God... that way they can commit "small sins" like lying or cursing and still be heaven eligible with just a little taste of hell.

It is a false "hope" offered to the unregenerate , that somehow that can make heaven on their own merits

1 posted on 02/26/2015 1:41:17 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; CynicalBear; daniel1212; Gamecock; HossB86; Iscool; ...

ping


2 posted on 02/26/2015 1:42:10 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7

::snort::


3 posted on 02/26/2015 1:45:25 PM PST by piusv
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To: RnMomof7

Most of the people here, I think, would rather purgawhig or purgasocialist than purgatory.


4 posted on 02/26/2015 1:46:51 PM PST by chajin ("There is no other name under heaven given among people by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12)
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To: RnMomof7

“Burning off sins” to many is actually a horrifying concept, and not biblical. The Bible talks about Abraham’s Bosom, the place where believers went prior to Jesus ascension. Now, to be absent from the body, is to be present with Christ Jesus! Hell is real, but Jesus paid the price so that no one has to go there!!!


5 posted on 02/26/2015 1:48:25 PM PST by Jan_Sobieski (Sanctification)
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To: RnMomof7
To believe is purgatory is to 'deny' the finished work of Christ. Furthermore...Just because someone wants to believe theirs a purgatory does not make it so.


6 posted on 02/26/2015 1:49:08 PM PST by caww
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To: RnMomof7

If there is, I’m sure it will involve the reading of endless religion forum debates.


7 posted on 02/26/2015 1:49:26 PM PST by Larry Lucido
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To: RnMomof7

Purgatory is not biblical.

The bible says it’s appointed once for man to die, after that the judgement.
The only way to have our sins forgiven and cleansed is by the blood of Jesus.


8 posted on 02/26/2015 1:49:48 PM PST by American Constitutionalist (The Keystone Pipeline Project : build it already Congress !)
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To: Larry Lucido
If there is, I’m sure it will involve the reading of endless religion forum debates.

Good grief! I'm dead!

9 posted on 02/26/2015 1:51:15 PM PST by Legatus (Either way, we're screwed.)
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To: RnMomof7

I like the title, I like the title.


10 posted on 02/26/2015 1:52:39 PM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: Jan_Sobieski

Didn’t ISIL “purge with fire” that Muslim Jordanian pilot?

So the concept is there for using fire to purge. It’s not just Christian.


11 posted on 02/26/2015 1:57:26 PM PST by redleghunter (He expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning Himself. Lk24)
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To: RnMomof7

“Purgatory” is right here on planet earth. Being extra good this time around so I won’t have to come back again.


12 posted on 02/26/2015 1:57:30 PM PST by DefeatCorruption
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To: American Constitutionalist

I know. It’s a fund raising foundation!


13 posted on 02/26/2015 2:01:02 PM PST by SgtHooper (Anyone who remembers the 60's, wasn't there!)
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To: RnMomof7

In the 20 period after leaving the Catholic Church, prior to having a real born again experience (a slow motion process that lasted about 6 years), I often speculated that perhaps purgatory is real and we are all experiencing it with what we call “life”.

On some days, that thought returns to me.


14 posted on 02/26/2015 2:01:05 PM PST by L,TOWM (Is it still too soon to start shooting?)
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To: RnMomof7

As I understand it, the early princes of the church initiated infant baptism so a person would be less likely to die before being baptized, in which case they’d be sent to hell.

It was later decided, though, that since sinning while living post-baptism was worse than sinning before, it was too hard living an entire baptized life without serious sins.

So, baptism was put off until late in life to dilute the effect of sins committed after baptism.

Then they realized that an unbaptized prince could fall off his horse as an adult, hit his head on a rock, and die before a priest could get there to baptize him.

The solution was to invent purgatory. Now, the believer could take out the eternal insurance of infant baptism, live of life of post-baptism sins, and work off the punishment after death but before the devil could take him.


15 posted on 02/26/2015 2:01:28 PM PST by sparklite2
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To: RnMomof7

Purgatory is one of those concepts that tells me that the Catholic Church has no idea what scripture really teaches.


16 posted on 02/26/2015 2:02:28 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: Legatus

With Obama in charge, if it ain’t Purgatory, it’s a very good simulation.


17 posted on 02/26/2015 2:05:21 PM PST by Flick Lives ("I can't believe it's not Fascism!")
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To: Jan_Sobieski

Hebrews 10:8-18 tells us clearly...Grace completely trumps anything to do with purgatory...a catholic manufactured belief...

Jesus said,.. ‘Here I am, I have come to do your will.’ He sets aside the first to establish the second. And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ ONCE for all............ by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:
‘This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.’ Then he adds:
‘Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.’

And where these have been forgiven, there is no longer any sacrifice for sin.”

Because of Jesus we have been forgiven. There is no longer any sacrifice required. ... That is what purgatory is all about – an “additional sacrifice” for venial sins. To say that purgatory is a necessary purification is to deny that the grace of God is sufficient.

1 John 1:9 says,..... “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.”

In 2 Corinthians 12:9, Paul said that Christ’s grace was sufficient for him.

Indeed, Christ’s grace is sufficient for us all. Praise God!


18 posted on 02/26/2015 2:06:32 PM PST by caww
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To: Legatus

LOL


19 posted on 02/26/2015 2:07:56 PM PST by piusv
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To: CynicalBear
....”Purgatory is one of those concepts that tells me that the Catholic Church has no idea what scripture really teaches”....

It could be said as well...they have no assurance of salvation or understanding of the completed work of Christ...His death, His burial or His Resurrection. Not to mention the work of His Holy Spirit.

It's not uncommon for many cults to believe much of what Christianity teaches and uses it's verbiage to mask the underlying beliefs that so oppose Jesus and his true teachings. Catholicism does this as well...it's a system designed to retain the priesthood and keep people bound to Rome.

20 posted on 02/26/2015 2:12:46 PM PST by caww
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