Posted on 02/26/2015 1:41:17 PM PST by RnMomof7
Who’s holding a gun to your head???
** Is There A Purgatory?**
Yes.
Program 18: Purgatory in 1Cor 3:15
Program 19: Purgatory in Matthew 5
Program 49: There is a Purgatory
Many cults go about trying to establish their own righteousness. Mitch essentially said, and I change the words slightly, but they have a greater chance of standing on the sun and casting a shadow, than they do of making Heaven on their own merits. Do I believe there is a place called Purgatory? Yes, it is in Colorado.
2 Thessalonians 1:7–9 says that those in Hell: “will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, AWAY FROM THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD and from the glory of his might”
If you were wrong about that - AND YOU WERE - you might be wrong about this too.
Read the words carefully...it does NOT say the man will be burned up..it says his WORK will
So lets look at context
1 Cor3:11For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because will test the quality of each man's work,15If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
This is where I say the 3 most important words when reading scripture CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT
The TOPIC of this chapter is not SIN it is MINISTRY
Please read the chapter... this is written to resolve issues within the church.. some said they were following Paul..others said they did not follow paul..they followed Apollos ... this was dividing the church...
Paul had important point here ..That CHRIST need to be the foundation of any ministry. But if that ministers work
See what Paul said just before Romes "proof text"
…Cor 3:7So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth. 8Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor. 9For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, God's building.…8Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor. 9For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, God's building.10According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it. 11For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.…
And now comes Romes proof text
12Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,…13each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work.…
As you can read China, this is not about burning up mans sin.. but the day revealing the truth of a ministry, and also our works for the gospel
Gold and silver were tested by fire in the OT so that image is used to explain that God will test the work of ministries to see if they are built on HIM
Psalms 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words; As silver tried in a furnace on the earth, refined seven times.
This verse should make Rome VERY afraid
The problem is they do not have salvation from Jesus Christ.. they have salvation by works.. including some suffering ... that doctrine negates the cross
LOL
I for the life of me don’t see why people can’t see that.
“The problem is they do not have salvation from Jesus Christ.. they have salvation by works.. including some suffering ... that doctrine negates the cross”
That’s a complete FALSEHOOD. We believe we are saved ONLY by the grace of Christ. We just believe that we receive grace for both faith and works and even those works are actually HIS works started in us. None of that negates the cross. All of it comes FROM the cross.
My favorite comment CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT
2Thes 1:Christ's Coming
5For an example ofthe just judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which also you suffer. 6Seeing it is a just thing with God to repay tribulation to them that trouble you: 7And to you who are troubled, rest with us when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven, with the angels of his power: 8In a flame of fire, giving vengeance to them who know not God, and who obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9Who shall suffereternal punishment in destruction, from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of his power: 10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be made wonderful in all them who have believed; because our testimony was believed upon you in that day. 11Wherefore also we pray always for you; that our God would make you worthy of his vocation, and fulfill all the good pleasure of his goodness and the work of faith in power; 12That the name of our Lord Jesus may be glorified in you, and you in him, according to the grace of our God, and of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Oppps not about Purgatory ,,,BUT THE FINAL JUDGEMENT and the eternal hell
LOL... yea just a little proof texting by Rome.. out of context ..bent and twisted ..read the scriptures in CONTEXT and see if they support this
Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.
If you think you earn grace it's no longer grace but a debt.
“Oppps not about Purgatory ,,,BUT THE FINAL JUDGEMENT and the eternal hell”
You fail again. I never said it was about Purgatory. I said you had been wrong BEFORE. Here: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3259724/posts?page=57#57
Remember, two posts earlier in that thread you said: “One more “infallible” teaching that falls to scripture. Either God is omnipresent or not>”
And I showed that SCRIPTURE ITSELF SAYS man in Hell is AWAY FROM THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD (2 Thess 1:7-9). Not surprisingly you left the thread at that point and never returned to respond.
Your second mistake was to mistake a post about Hell for one about Purgatory even though I said you had been wrong BEFORE.
You lose. Twice.
And don’t ever forget, the BIBLE SAYS “AWAY FROM THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD”.
Also, not, here you admit that this verse is about Hell. That means you are now admitting that you were previously wrong with this entire thread: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3259724/posts
“If you think you earn grace it’s no longer grace but a debt.”
I said nothing and IMPLIED nothing about EARNING grace. Also, I said they were CHRIST’S WORKS IN US.
It would help if you actually read.
What I wrote was ABUNDANTLY clear:
“We believe we are saved ONLY by the grace of Christ. We just believe that we receive grace for both faith and works and even those works are actually HIS works started in us.”
James 2:24: “You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.”
You stand opposed to God’s Word - and that’s nothing new from you.
Have a good night. Remember, now, actually READ the posts before you post. Try that from now on.
You did not prove her wrong. You admitted yourself that she was correct with this statement " God might very well be present in some form,". You cannot prove by 2 Thessalonians that God is not there. That passage simply says they will be "away from His face".
>>And don’t ever forget, the BIBLE SAYS “AWAY FROM THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD”.<<
Actually the Greek word means "face" or "countenance".
Your claims that she was wrong are in error as your statement above attests.
Pride maybe?
This comment says you did. vlad - "We just believe that we receive grace for both faith and works"
You receive grace through work. That's earning grace.
>>You stand opposed to God’s Word<<
I stand opposed? Those were not my words they were the Holy Spirit through Paul. Here it is again.
Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.
I leave your snippy personal comments alone.
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