Protestants: It's time to come back

http://littlecatholicbubble.blogspot.com ^ | September 9, 2011 | Leila Miller

[NKP_Vet]

To my Protestant brothers and sisters:

It's time to come back to Mother Church. We want you, we need you, we love you.

I've spent a lot of time in dialogue with activist atheists recently, and the direction we are going is not pretty. We are witnessing a rapid cultural decline into amorality.

Satan seeks the ruin of souls through the destruction of marriage and family, and the quickest route to his goal is the profanation of sex. The truth and meaning of human sexuality is our era's cultural fault line, and unfortunately, Protestant denominations have been tumbling into its widening crevace at an alarming pace.

The first cracks denying the sacred nature of human sexuality began mere decades ago with the first tentative acceptance of contraception by a Christian church (the Anglicans). After 1,900+ years of unbroken Christian teaching on the immorality of contraception (including 400+ years of unbroken Protestant teaching), a moral evil was suddenly declared good. The entirety of Protestantism, although horrified at first, soon followed suit.

"Woe to those who call evil good" -- Isaiah 5:20

Then came other issues -- sterilization, masturbation, abortion, fornication and cohabiting, homosexual activity and homosexual "marriage". One by one, Protestant communities have broken from Christian teaching and sided with the secular culture. Many Protestant communities do not accept all the aforementioned evils as good, of course, and some are making a valiant attempt to fight one or more of them. However, there is no guarantee that those denominations won't eventually accept other sexual sins in the same way they accepted contraception, sterilization and masturbation. A majority vote by church leaders could launch an unsuspecting Protestant from the Spirit of the Gospel right into the spirit of the age -- the Planned Parenthood age.

Look where you are standing. Unless you stand with the Catholic Church, you may already have one foot off the cliff.

How to guarantee that you'll stand firmly on the ground of moral Truth? Come back home to the Catholic Church.

For over two thousand years:

The Catholic Church has never taught that contraception is a moral good, and she never will. The Catholic Church has never taught that sterilization is a moral good, and she never will. The Catholic Church has never taught that masturbation is a moral good, and she never will. The Catholic Church has never taught that abortion is a moral good, and she never will. The Catholic Church has never taught that fornication is a moral good, and she never will. The Catholic Church has never taught that homosexual activity is a moral good, and she never will.

The moral teachings of the Church have never changed, and they never will.

Human sexuality is transcendent, life-giving and sacred, and the Catholic Church will teach that Truth till the last day.

Dear Protestant, a church with a changing morality is a church built on shifting sand. If you want to build your life and eternity on something solid, build it on the Rock of Peter. Don't be carried about by every wind of social change; come back to the Catholic Church and stand strong with us -- one united Body as Jesus intended.

America may not survive many more generations at the rate we are going, but the Church and her teachings will stand regardless, speaking the same Truths, undisturbed, till the end of time. Believe me, it's a really nice place to be in a storm. Extremely peaceful.

So, come on. You'll like it here, living in peace and joy and certainty. It's your rightful home anyway.

Come back to Holy Mother Church. It really is time.

[Legatus]

I think everyone recognizes an ad hominem attack when they see it.

One thing that stood out was “the professionalism of your paid responses”... what was that all about?

[vladimir998]

Talisker, I realize you probably have no factual information to oppose anything I am saying with so I’ll help you out here:

“LOL, so the Cathars attacked the representatives of the Church who were trying to judge them as heretics and burned them at the stake. A full 90 times over 90 years?”

That was what was discovered by one historian writing one book about one region - and he doesn’t claim it is a complete list. And, as I pointed it out, the list included acts of violence against those who were converts, church officials, etc. who were viewed as associated in some way with the inquisition. The list does not include the numerous other acts of violence against people NOT ASSOCIATED WITH THE INQUISITION. Also, it is merely your assumption that any of the suspected Cathars would have been executed. Executions were rare considering the total number of cases. The overwhelming, vast majority, of Cathars were not burned at the stake. Most only had to make an abjuration and do penance for a period of time and that was it.

“But you also say that the Cathars attacked even Catholics who were NOT attacking them - even though you don’t have any records of that.”

That’s false. I never said I have no such records. I have no convenient LIST as the one compiled by Given. I have read dozens and dozens of books and articles on the inquisition over the last few years. A number of them have stories of acts of violence by Cathars but I did not compile a list as Given did (and his is only on acts specifically against those associated with the inquisition in ONE region only). One day perhaps I’ll do that, but not today.

“But you KNOW they attacked Catholics everywhere BECAUSE there are no records of this.”

It amazes me how cornered Protestants always turn to making things up. I know there was Cather violence against Catholics because I have read numerous accounts of it. I never said there were no records of that. I have no convenient list of it. Again, one day perhaps I’ll compile one, but not today.

The rest of what you posted is essentially little more than nonsense because so much of it predicated on something no one even said.

Why do Protestant anti-Catholics almost routinely make false claims as to what Catholics did and did not say? I never once claimed I had no records of Cathar violence against non inquisitors. Yet you completely make that up by saying, “But you KNOW they attacked Catholics everywhere BECAUSE there are no records of this.” FALSE. I never made that claim. EVER.

[vladimir998]

“We are not discussing Jews here, ...”

And there you have it. I saw that coming. Can’t say it because that would be viewed as “mind reading” and my post would have been deleted.

“The “first place” are the Muslims. Not the Jews, nor other Christian denominations but the Muslims!!”

Ha! Jews are mentioned in the previous paragraphs of the CCC. As I posted 841 I thought to myself, “I bet one of the anti-Catholics will get upset that it mentions Muslims and not Jews because they’re too ignorant to know that the Jews are mentioned in 839-40.” And here we are.

Here it is:

The Church and non-Christians

839 “Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways.”325

The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 “the first to hear the Word of God.”327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”,328 “for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.”329

840 And when one considers the future, God’s People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.

[metmom]

It gets worse as you read it because not only is it defended by the poster, but by other RC’s as well.

[Missouri gal]

RE: His teachings teach us all we need to know about salvation.

And you got those teachings from-—the Church!

RE: Nowhere in the Bible does it say anyone has to be Catholic to be saved.

That's circular and meaningless, since the name Catholic comes much later. Clearly, He gives authority to His Apostles and puts the job of spreading the Gospel and baptising to them. “He who hears you hears Me.”

[vladimir998]

““a firm belief”? You saying that God appearing to Moses is simply a “firm belief” on Moses part? Oy vey!!!”

Are you saying that secular laws against heresy, a common view that heresy harms the people, public violence against heretics, and personal revulsion over vile Cathar heresies is not enough to create a “firm belief” that the Cathars can be executed if that was viewed as necessary in a society that had execution as a penalty?

[CynicalBear]

You attempt to justify the atrocities of the Catholic Church all you want. Decent people everywhere will continue to condemn it.

[metmom]

Your efforts won’t be wasted on the lurkers.

However, it will be wasted on the FRoman Catholics who wish to believe every bad thing they can accuse non-Catholics of thinking, doing, or saying.

[verga]

Metmom and boatbums Ping to Editors excellent post 598.

[CynicalBear]

# 841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”[330]

[metmom]

No, I didn’t realize it. The Christian God and the Muslim god are in no way the same; that’s easily proven by Scripture. Which is why a Catholics should sternly condemn any of their number who celebrates murder and praises God for it.

Well, read this out of the Catechism of the Catholic church, the document they hold equal to or higher than Scripture.

The pope kissing the koran. Fits right in with the Catechism of the Catholic church which states.....

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P29.HTM

841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."330

[Talisker]

LOL, look who'se talking about "facts." What about the fact of YOU? What about the fact of what YOU are claiming to be the current teachings of the Catholic Church - the murder of of those who disagree? You WANT "heretics" murdered. You PRAISE the murder of "heretics." You AGREE with the murder of "heretics." You believe that Catholicism TEACHES the murder of disbelievers and absolves itself by rephrasing it as the "execution of heretics" or the "ending of the problem." You're completely insane.

The Catholic Church IN NO WAY supports your screeds and your lies and your twists and turns and incredible hatred and perversion of its teachings. You mind is drenched in blood and there's no way out - you doubled and then tripled down on it. And then YOU talk about "factual" information? You, who slander the beliefs of entire RACES of murdered people and shout "praise be to God"!? Go drink your blood, maniac. You are the enemy of the entire human race.

I told you, you jumped the shark. You supported mass murder in the name of the Church - game over. There is nothing else you can say after that, fool. You blood-slandered not only the Cathars and Albigensians, but every Catholic alive today. The stench of your peversion surrounds you like a cloud from hell.

Yes, I'm angry, Someone claims the Catholic Church teaches the mass murder of those who disagree with it, it makes me angry. You should be banned for life from Free Republic for making your sick, twisted claims under the protection of "Religion." What you've said on this thread is satanic - and you know it.

[metmom]

There is a big difference between what is said and claimed.

Yes, muslims CLAIM to worship the God of Abraham.

The CCC however, states that Catholics and muslims DO worship the same God of Abraham.

[ealgeone]

Since Christ is not the weak link in this matter, I would invite Eagle to show us how saying a prayer that is nowhere to be found in God's word constitutes a contract with the Father that no matter how far we depart from his commandments, he is bound to invite us into his rest, considering especially that the Son has declared “He that endures to the end, the same shall be saved.”

Guess the 3,000 that were saved after hearing this message must not have done it correctly.

What words do you think they said? Were they the right ones?

37Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?” 38Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Colossians 2:13-14 says it this way.

When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,

14having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

If you look at a Greek interlinear the english "having canceled" is "having blotted out" in the Greek. It means to completely wipe away or obliterate.

The Greek translates the decrees against us as "handwriting in the decrees". The word for handrwriting indicates a legal note, or bond. In the Mosaic law it shows men to be chargeable with offences for which they must pay the penalty.

The verb tense in "He has taken" is in the perfect form. It is a completed action. It's done.

In Roman times a freed prisoner would have a paper with him that showed his crimes had been paid for in case the authorities questioned him.

What is this telling us? The sins/crimes we were guilty of, Christ has completely blotted these out and has nailed them to the cross. There is nothing else that can be done for our sins.

Is it a license to sin? No, sir. Just as Paul noted in Romans 6. Need to read the whole chapter to understand it. Not going to post it as I think we have resources to access it.

There isn't an "official" prayer one has to say other than what Paul suggested.

Romans 10:8-11 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 [e]that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, [f]resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, [g]resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be [h]disappointed.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

[verga]

You attempt to justify the atrocities of the Catholic Church all you want. Decent people everywhere will continue to condemn it.

We are not allowed to bring previous threads over here, but you might want to ask two of your most virulent female anti-Catholics both of which claim to be ex-Catholics about their feelings about the actions of Queen Elizabeth I in dealing with the supporters of Mary Queen of Scots.

And then send him that bag of M&M's

[verga]

Yes, muslims CLAIM to worship the God of Abraham.

And so do protestants, but we know that is not true.

[vladimir998]

“I see your point that the Muslims profess to hold the faith of Abraham, but directly afterward it says “together with us they adore the one merciful God.” That is not the case.”

Your opinion is duly noted, but doesn’t matter.

“Jews can’t be lumped with Muslims.”

In some ways they can be - and in some ways Jews do that themselves.

“It’s true that the Jewish people believe the Messiah is yet to come, but we share the same Old Testament. Scripture says we are grafted onto THEIR branch.”

That changes nothing about lumping Jews and Muslims together on some things. Does Jewish law allow the execution of heretics and blasphemers? Does Muslim law? The answer to both questions is that both law codes DEMAND IT.

“Islam is a bastard religion, a murderous blood cult whose chief aim is world domination.”

Okay, and yet they profess to follow the God of Abraham. We’re stuck with that.

I wrote: “And wasn’t Jesus supposedly condemned for blasphemy?”

You wrote: “You can’t be serious. Can you? Tell me you’re not.”

Are you denying the gospel accounts of Jesus’ condemnation? He was falsely accuse of blasphemy was He not? Seriously, how can you deny what the gospel says in the passion stories? Are you actually denying Matthew 26:65? Are you actually denying Mark 14:64? Or even John 10:36?

I told you to check yourself and I’m telling you again. You’re now denying the literal word of the Bible if you don’t believe Jesus was supposedly condemned for blasphemy.

I am so surprised that you would do this - maybe I shouldn’t be since you’re a Protestant after all - that I will await your response on this. Check yourself. Get it straight.

“That was just as wrong. But if you can find a Protestant on this forum, or anywhere else, who celebrates that kind of murder as right and praises God for it, I’ll buy you a bag of M&Ms.”

I have seen plenty of Protestant anti-Catholics make excuses for it and possibly one or two praise God for it. I’m not going to bother going through thousands of posts to find it. One time I think it was in reference to St. Edmund Campion.

I don’t need your M&Ms, but you need to do some serious soul searching about your views on the passion narratives if you’re going to deny scripture like that.

[vladimir998]

The Catholic Church committed no atrocities.

[CynicalBear]

Ah yes!!!!! The old Catholic defense. “they did it tooo”. All I can say at this point is “bless your heart”.

[vladimir998]

You wrote:

“LOL, look who’se talking about “facts.” What about the fact of YOU? What about the fact of what YOU are claiming to be the current teachings of the Catholic Church - the murder of of those who disagree?”

Here we go again with you making things up out of thin air. When and where did I say ANYTHING about the “current teachings of the Catholic Church - the murder of of those who disagree”?

Show me.