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Flame war and childishness |
Posted on 07/14/2014 9:20:18 AM PDT by NKP_Vet
To my Protestant brothers and sisters:
It's time to come back to Mother Church. We want you, we need you, we love you.
I've spent a lot of time in dialogue with activist atheists recently, and the direction we are going is not pretty. We are witnessing a rapid cultural decline into amorality.
Satan seeks the ruin of souls through the destruction of marriage and family, and the quickest route to his goal is the profanation of sex. The truth and meaning of human sexuality is our era's cultural fault line, and unfortunately, Protestant denominations have been tumbling into its widening crevace at an alarming pace.
The first cracks denying the sacred nature of human sexuality began mere decades ago with the first tentative acceptance of contraception by a Christian church (the Anglicans). After 1,900+ years of unbroken Christian teaching on the immorality of contraception (including 400+ years of unbroken Protestant teaching), a moral evil was suddenly declared good. The entirety of Protestantism, although horrified at first, soon followed suit.
"Woe to those who call evil good" -- Isaiah 5:20
Then came other issues -- sterilization, masturbation, abortion, fornication and cohabiting, homosexual activity and homosexual "marriage". One by one, Protestant communities have broken from Christian teaching and sided with the secular culture. Many Protestant communities do not accept all the aforementioned evils as good, of course, and some are making a valiant attempt to fight one or more of them. However, there is no guarantee that those denominations won't eventually accept other sexual sins in the same way they accepted contraception, sterilization and masturbation. A majority vote by church leaders could launch an unsuspecting Protestant from the Spirit of the Gospel right into the spirit of the age -- the Planned Parenthood age.
Look where you are standing. Unless you stand with the Catholic Church, you may already have one foot off the cliff.
How to guarantee that you'll stand firmly on the ground of moral Truth? Come back home to the Catholic Church.
For over two thousand years:
The Catholic Church has never taught that contraception is a moral good, and she never will. The Catholic Church has never taught that sterilization is a moral good, and she never will. The Catholic Church has never taught that masturbation is a moral good, and she never will. The Catholic Church has never taught that abortion is a moral good, and she never will. The Catholic Church has never taught that fornication is a moral good, and she never will. The Catholic Church has never taught that homosexual activity is a moral good, and she never will.
The moral teachings of the Church have never changed, and they never will.
Human sexuality is transcendent, life-giving and sacred, and the Catholic Church will teach that Truth till the last day.
Dear Protestant, a church with a changing morality is a church built on shifting sand. If you want to build your life and eternity on something solid, build it on the Rock of Peter. Don't be carried about by every wind of social change; come back to the Catholic Church and stand strong with us -- one united Body as Jesus intended.
America may not survive many more generations at the rate we are going, but the Church and her teachings will stand regardless, speaking the same Truths, undisturbed, till the end of time. Believe me, it's a really nice place to be in a storm. Extremely peaceful.
So, come on. You'll like it here, living in peace and joy and certainty. It's your rightful home anyway.
Come back to Holy Mother Church. It really is time.
Because you think the following is sensible, right?
“Still waiting for answers to Martin Luther’s 95 points of concern, without circular reasoning.”
Really? The response you were given by NKP_Vet was far more sensible than your original post.
So you are obviously saying that those who Jesus said ”and they will never perish” actually may well perish even after they were given eternal life which would make Jesus statement in John 10:28 a falsehood.
Huh?
CynicalBear, I don't understand your point. I think you have me confused with someone else.
The Catholic Church official position is that the Muslim’s serve the same god as they do. They both justify killing people they consider heretics, thus my question to you about them serving the same god. Maybe you didn’t realize that the Catholic Church says they serve the same god.
“Vladimir, what I don’t like is the sight of someone praising God for mass murder.”
Wait. First, I think you need to check yourself right there. No one is “praising God for mass murder.” That’s number 1. Number 2 is that we aren’t even talking about mass murder if we’re talking about the inquisition. You might not agree, but your opinion doesn’t square with the historical facts. If you want to consider it “judicial murder”, fine. But that still doesn’t cut it.
Next, I think you had better read the Bible. Try Exodus 32. Was that murder? Whether it was 3,000 or 23,000 (as Paul says) it was a lot of people cut to pieces in one day for worshiping the golden calf. And what came of that? “And Moses said, “Today you have been ordained for the service of the LORD, each one at the cost of his son and of his brother, so that he might bestow a blessing upon you this day.”” The Jewish priesthood came out of that bloodbath. Are you sure you know as much about this topic as you think you do?
“Look, you can spin it any way you want, but the right thing to do would be for the Catholics on the board to call out and condemn such insanity.”
So you condemn Moses and the Levites, right? I see plenty of Catholics on FR saying they wish there had been no executions of heretics, but they understand that they were a product of their time - and that is the case. Trying to commit suicide was a capital offense in England a two or three centuries ago. Does that make sense to you? Does it? No, but that was what was considered sensible at the time no matter how ridiculous we think it is now.
“There’s just no whitewashing it.”
There’s nothing that needs to be whitewashed and we wouldn’t whitewash it if we could. It was what it was AT THAT TIME. I lose no sleep over it, yet wished it was never deemed necessary, but heretics made it seem necessary to the orthodox trying to hold society together. I also disagree with the internment of the Japanese in WWII - but it seemed necessary to people at that time. I wouldn’t be surprised if we have to intern Muslims in the future after a Muslim sets off a nuke in a major American city. Will that be right?
No, I didn’t realize it.
The Christian God and the Muslim god are in no way the same; that’s easily proven by Scripture. Which is why a Catholics should sternly condemn any of their number who celebrates murder and praises God for it.
Whoa! You’re saying that God told the Catholic Church to kill those people? May I remind you that Moses pleaded with God to not have those people killed? Then before he had them killed he said “Thus saith the Lord God of Israel,”. It was God who commanded those who opposed Him be killed. Catholic hubris is stunning.
Oh, get over yourself, vladimir. Don’t tell me to “check” anything, all right?
If you have questions about what was said, go back and read the post in question.
Moses acted on a direct commandment from God. I’m not going to compare him, God’s beloved prophet,or the events of Exodus (27, actually) to anything else.
Jpx2011 should be called out. You should be doing just that.
“The Catholic Church official position is that the Muslim’s serve the same god as they do. They both justify killing people they consider heretics, thus my question to you about them serving the same god. Maybe you didn’t realize that the Catholic Church says they serve the same god.”
Catherine, what CB is doing is wrong. I cannot label it properly because my post would be deleted. What CB is alluding to is the fact that Christians, Muslims, AND JEWS, all claim to follow the God of Abraham. The Catechism says this:
“841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; *******these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”********330
In other words, the Catechism recognizes that Christians, Jews AND MUSLIMS, all PROFESS to believe and follow the God of Abraham.
The reason why I think CB is being [I’m not allowed to say it here or else my post will be deleted] here is that she excludes Jews and focuses only on Muslims - and links them (alone) to Catholics. Jews, however, killed those whom they believed to be heretics, blasphemers, etc. Again, see Exodus 32. And wasn’t Jesus supposedly condemned for blasphemy? Yet, CB’s religious [can’t say it; post would be deleted] won’t [can’t say it; post will get deleted] her to lump together Jews and Muslims when she is attacking Catholics. She probably would do it if she were talking about Pharisees, however.
And what about the fact that Protestants sometimes killed those they condemned as heretics? CB skips right over those cases, of course.
“Whoa! You’re saying that God told the Catholic Church to kill those people?”
Oooooohhhhh, so all that is needed is a firm belief that someone is acting on God’s behalf and it’s okay to put people to death for transgressions against the religious law, right? That’s what you’re saying is it not?
“Oh, get over yourself, vladimir. Don’t tell me to “check” anything, all right?”
No, I’ll tell you to check yourself anytime I like - especially when you’re completely making something up out of thin air about my fellow Catholics.
“If you have questions about what was said, go back and read the post in question.”
I did. That’s why I said what I said.
“Moses acted on a direct commandment from God. I’m not going to compare him, God’s beloved prophet,or the events of Exodus (27, actually) to anything else.”
Yeah, definitely don’t compare that whole slaughter which gave us the Jewish priesthood to Psalm 137:9. You might cry if you did.
“Jpx2011 should be called out. You should be doing just that.”
Nope. He did nothing wrong.
LOL, so the Cathars attacked the representatives of the Church who were trying to judge them as heretics and burned them at the stake. A full 90 times over 90 years? Why, that's once a year! How did the Catholic Church stand it?
It's such a mystery. Why would they do such a thing? You mean some of them actually broke under the strain of someone trying to kill them, and fought back, against their pacifist beliefs? Well then, that means no Cathar was pacifist! Kind of like the French Resistance in WWII. Did you know they actually attacked Gestapo agents? What other choice did the Nazis have than to murder entire villages? So you can see the source of the terrible choice those poor inquisitors were forced to make by the savage Cathars.
Not to mention the fact that the inquisitors were there to save the Cathars souls - so that makes any attacks especially bad. You know, the more you point these things out, the more I realize that Jesus Christ Himself wanted those millions of Cathars killed. I mean just LOOK at their attitude! You don't let people live who act like that. Especially when they influence the peasants not to pay tithes and taxes to your Church! It's not only heresy, it's the collapse of civilization itself.
The acts of violence against common everyday Catholics were even more numerous is not as noteworthy.
But you also say that the Cathars attacked even Catholics who were NOT attacking them - even though you don't have any records of that. But you KNOW they attacked Catholics everywhere BECAUSE there are no records of this. Now that's what I call true scholarship. Any layperson would think that the lack of records within the environment of meticulous recordkeeping of the inquisition meant that nothing happened. But a true Catholic scholar understands that that is the where the most horrible sins are to be found. Those records that don't exist are why millions of Cathars had to die. Just as what a person doesn't actually have in his mind is precisely why a good inquisitor would know they had to be burned at the stake to save their souls.
Historically speaking, these have been the true mysteries of the Church which have perpelexed and enraged millions - and thereby identified them as heretic who needed to be destroyed. See the brilliance? And they still work, for they are being exhibited here in their full glory on this very thread by YOUR monumental efforts, at which I stand in awe.
We are not discussing Jews here, although they indeed serve the same God but deny that Jesus is the Messiah. Muslim’s may “claim” whatever they want. The god they describe and worship in no way is the God of scripture.
>>CB skips right over those cases, of course.<<
If we were discussing them I would condemn them as well. Protestants are after all the daughters of the Catholic Church having come out of her and retained many of her errors.
Now here is the exact 841.
# 841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”[330]
The “first place” are the Muslims. Not the Jews, nor other Christian denominations but the Muslims!!
“a firm belief”? You saying that God appearing to Moses is simply a “firm belief” on Moses part? Oy vey!!!
I see your point that the Muslims profess to hold the faith of Abraham, but directly afterward it says "together with us they adore the one merciful God."
That is not the case.
"The reason why I think CB is being [I’m not allowed to say it here or else my post will be deleted] here is that she excludes Jews and focuses only on Muslims - and links them (alone) to Catholics. Jews, however, killed those whom they believed to be heretics, blasphemers, etc. Again, see Exodus 32."
27.
Jews can't be lumped with Muslims. It's true that the Jewish people believe the Messiah is yet to come, but we share the same Old Testament. Scripture says we are grafted onto THEIR branch.
Islam is a bastard religion, a murderous blood cult whose chief aim is world domination.
"And wasn’t Jesus supposedly condemned for blasphemy?"
You can't be serious. Can you? Tell me you're not.
"And what about the fact that Protestants sometimes killed those they condemned as heretics? CB skips right over those cases, of course."
That was just as wrong. But if you can find a Protestant on this forum, or anywhere else, who celebrates that kind of murder as right and praises God for it, I'll buy you a bag of M&Ms.
All faiths have lukewarm members. And that includes any protestant faith as well as those that call themselves Catholic. Worldwide you have over a billion Catholics. It’s the doctrines of the Catholic Church that attracted me to the faith, not the sins of others in the faith and whether or not they were living according to the doctrines of the church. Only the Catholic Church has absolute moral truths that have not changed in 2,000 years and will not change. This can not be said for any protestant faith, some of which have been around for 10 or 15 years. The oldest 500 years of so. Catholicism is not sissies. It’s takes a committed, tough person to live their life according to the Word of God. And for those that call themselves Catholic that can’t live the faith according to the doctrines of that faith, I say find yourself another faith. There are thousands of protestant churches that will suit your me first God second attitude.
Since Christ is not the weak link in this matter, I would invite Eagle to show us how saying a prayer that is nowhere to be found in God's word constitutes a contract with the Father that no matter how far we depart from his commandments, he is bound to invite us into his rest, considering especially that the Son has declared “He that endures to the end, the same shall be saved.”
If we stray from his commandments, as have all of those promoting OSAS, and rejecting Torah, how can we be considered to have endured to the end? It seems that the requirement to be shown grace is to have confessed, repented, and begun the walk toward righteousness:
1John 3:7
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
Our sole security is knowing that he has written his commandments on our heart, because we now desire to do his commandments.
How can one that not only has no desire to do his commandments, but vilely attacks those that do, have any such assurance? Wake up and smell the rot! .
The Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) is the world’s largest Baptist denomination and the largest Protestant body in the United States, with nearly 16 million members as of 2012.
Then your arrogance will be dismissed out of hand, as it deserves...as will the blatant dishonesty of your last statement.
“If you have questions about what was said, go back and read the post in question.”
"I did. That’s why I said what I said."
Incredible.
I wonder how many lurkers considering the Catholic church have been turned off today by what they've seen. It really is shocking.
“Moses acted on a direct commandment from God. I’m not going to compare him, God’s beloved prophet,or the events of Exodus (27, actually) to anything else.”"
"Yeah, definitely don’t compare that whole slaughter which gave us the Jewish priesthood to Psalm 137:9. You might cry if you did."
You expect me to mourn over a direct commandment from God (which you seem to have a problem with), while a fellow Catholic rejoices over the murder of innocents and you defend him.
It's really quite amazing.
“Jpx2011 should be called out. You should be doing just that.”
"Nope. He did nothing wrong."
Uh-huh. We're done. Congratulations, vladimir. You and Jpx2011 are the first Freepers whose posts have made me feel like a shower is in order.
Every Catholic who sat by and failed to condemn the original post should be ashamed.
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