Posted on 12/02/2013 7:06:42 PM PST by marshmallow
Jes·u·it·i·cal
adjective
of or pertaining to Jesuits or Jesuitism.
( often lowercase ) practicing casuistry or equivocation;
using subtle or oversubtle reasoning; crafty; sly; intriguing.
Or as the say you can take the Jesuit out of the Jesuits but not the Jesuit out of the Jesuit.
On Saturday, Radio Vatican said Pope Francis had said,
“In the Gospel, Jesus does not become angry, but pretends to when the disciples do not understand him,”
The ancient Fathers would baulk at such a suggestion, I can't think of one who would be be comfortable with the idea that the Gospels did not reveal the plain meaning of what Jesus said and did, it is only the Jesuits of the 17th century who would begin to suggest otherwise.
There is no suggestion in the Gospels that Jesus feigns, or pretends anything. On the contrary he is the 'Truth'. He says, "Let your 'yes' mean 'yes' and your 'no' mean 'no'". His Kingdom stands in contradistinction to that of the kingdom of the Father of Lies.
If Jesus really does 'pretend' to be angry but isn't really what else does he pretend? Is he really just 'acting' in other emotional responses, when he sighs, when he weeps, when he rails against the Pharisees. Is he really grinning broadly when he calls Simon Peter, 'Satan'?
I do not agree with Pope Francis on this, we do not need smiley or angry face marks to interpret the Gospels. Perhaps this says more about the Pope than it does about Jesus. Rather than Jesus pretending, is Pope Francis 'pretending'? After all if one believes the Son of God can and does 'pretend', why shouldn't the Pope? And if the Pope can 'pretend', why not the Church?
(Excerpt) Read more at marymagdalen.blogspot.com ...
HMMMmmm...
It appears that your second statement is not obeying your first one.
So either way, he still asserts that Christ was pretending to be angry. Christ deceived his Apostles.
mmmmmkay.
Okay. Not merely ex cathedra.
But the authentic magisterium. Not just anything he says in a homily. And the subject matter must be a matter of faith or morals, and this does not include opinions about the causes of poverty.
Her body and soul is alive in heaven. Otherwise, don’t you think they would have discovered her tomb?
dangus says
“That said, I am completely scandalized by the Pope’s abandonment of the principle of subsidiarity, a Catholic social doctrine which directly opposes statism.”
Maybe he hasn’t forgot subsidiarity. From the same American Thinker article quoted elsewhere:
“Pope Francis also says in the exhortation that politicians should not pander to or prey on the poor for votes, that countries with high debt are doing a disservice to the poor, and that welfare programs are not the answer to the problem of poverty. He also calls for a greater emphasis on Catholic teaching on the principle of subsidiarity, which is absolutely opposed to all forms of “collectivism.” So while Pope Francis is criticizing capitalism’s negatives, he is certainly not endorsing socialism.”
I’m more fascinated that Catholics can continuously defend at the very least potentially heretical statements by the man who is supposed to be Pope.
You have a far too expansive notion of the subject matters that the magisterium of the Church can address with authority.
An overall insightful analysis.
But I’ve never seen such a continual questioning of this man’s “true” meanings of what he’s said. A person simply cannot screw up that often, like EVERY time he opens his mouth. How many points is he going to be spotted before his game actually counts?
Well.....yeah....What else can be said?
As said, you are the one promoting a church as the supreme authority, while i am defending what i see Scripture teach. And since that is not your supreme authority, but Rome is, and you are not to objectively examine the Scriptures to ascertain the veracity of what Rome teaches, thus all you can really do is engage in argument by assertion of Rome's claims. Thats it!
I just described the Catholic Church. I defy you to tell me those morale issues are liberal. Ask the liberal media how “liberal” the Catholic Church is.
No you did not describe the Catholic Church, esp the RCC, but largely a paper one, unless you do not believe what James said, "I will shew thee my faith by my works." (Ja. 2:18) Talk is cheap, for what we really believe is shown by what we do, and what Rome effectually teaches is liberalism, from the Bible scholarship it posts right on the Vatican web site to the treatment of liberals as members in life and in death.
And I could give a rats ass about what some moron that claims to be “catholic” says he believes in.
Of course you do, since you must defend your fantasy of Rome, and deny that what you believe is shown by what you do, and what Rome shows is that liberal - her majority - are members in life and in death, even men like Teddy K, and that long as you die in her arms as a Catholic is what is most essential. Converts to conservative evangelicalism are to be attacked.
Now want to tell you all about the protestant churches that believe in sodomite “marriage”,
We censure them to, but once again, unlike you, i am not promoting such a church, which you zealously are, thus the denial, and unlike you i can leave a liberal church do joined one in which i am not a fellow member with known liberals.
Ask the liberal media how “liberal” the Catholic Church is.
Gladly:
Bible Reading: the highest was 75%, by those going to a Pentecostal/Foursquare church who reported they had read the Bible during the past week (besides at church), while the lowest was among Catholics at 23% http://www.science20.com/print/972444
Volunteer church work (during past 7 days): Assemblies of God were highest at 30%, with the lowest going to Catholics at 12%. ^
By denomination, 61% of the those associated with an Assemblies of God church said they had shared their faith at least once during the past year, as did 61% of those who attend a Pentecostal/Foursquare church, and ending 14% among Episcopalians and just 10% among Roman Catholics. http://www.barna.org/barna-update/article/5-barna-update/54
25% of Evangelical Christians and 20% of other Protestants and 7% of Catholics said the read the Bible on a daily basis. 44% of Catholics said they rarely or never read the Bible, along with only 7% of Evangelical Christians and 13% of other Protestants. http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/lifestyle/general_lifestyle/december_2008/catholics_protestants_practice_faith_in_different_ways
81% of Pentecostal/Foursquare believers strongly agree that the Bible is totally accurate in all that it teaches , followed by 77% of Assemblies of God believers, and ending with 26% of Catholics and 22% of Episcopalians. ^
The percentage of Catholics who believed the Bible is totally accurate in all of the principles it teaches declined from 34% in 1991 to 26% in 2011 http://www.barna.org/faith-spirituality/514-barna-study-of-religious-change-since-1991-shows-significant-changes-by-faith-group.
The typical Catholic person was 38% less likely than the average American to read the Bible; 67% less likely to attend a Sunday school class; 20% less likely to share their faith in Christ with someone who had different beliefs, donated about 17% less money to churches, and were 36% less likely to have an "active faith," defined as reading the Bible, praying and attending a church service during the prior week. Catholics were also significantly less likely to believe that the Bible is totally accurate in all of the principles it teaches. 44% of Catholics claimed to be "absolutely committed" to their faith, compared to 54% of the entire adult population. However, Catholics were 16% more likely to attend a church service and 8% more likely to have prayed to God during the prior week than the average American. Barna Reaearch, 2007, “Catholics Have Become Mainstream America” http://www.barna.org/barna-update/article/12-faithspirituality/100
Catholics' responses to the questions that make up the 2004 Gallup Index of Leading Religious Indicators show Catholics lag noticeably behind Protestants on all but two of the survey items that make up the Index: belief in God and church membership. http://www.gallup.com/poll/14725/protestants-vs-catholics-whos-got-religion.aspx
81% of Pentecostal/Foursquare believers strongly agree that the Bible is totally accurate in all that it teaches , followed by 77% of Assemblies of God believers, and ending with 26% of Catholics and 22% of Episcopalians. ^
The percentage of Catholics who believed the Bible is totally accurate in all of the principles it teaches declined from 34% in 1991 to 26% in 2011 http://www.barna.org/faith-spirituality/514-barna-study-of-religious-change-since-1991-shows-significant-changes-by-faith-group.
The typical Catholic person was 38% less likely than the average American to read the Bible; 67% less likely to attend a Sunday school class; 20% less likely to share their faith in Christ with someone who had different beliefs, donated about 17% less money to churches, and were 36% less likely to have an "active faith," defined as reading the Bible, praying and attending a church service during the prior week. Catholics were also significantly less likely to believe that the Bible is totally accurate in all of the principles it teaches. 44% of Catholics claimed to be "absolutely committed" to their faith, compared to 54% of the entire adult population. However, Catholics were 16% more likely to attend a church service and 8% more likely to have prayed to God during the prior week than the average American. Barna Reaearch, 2007, “Catholics Have Become Mainstream America” http://www.barna.org/barna-update/article/12-faithspirituality/100
80% of Catholics believe it is possible to disagree with the pope on official positions on morality and still be a good Catholic. Time/CNN nationwide poll of 1,000 adults, conducted by Yankelovich Partners, Sept. 27-28, 1995; subsample of 500 Catholics, MOE ± 4.5%
77% of Catholics polled "believe a person can be a good Catholic without going to Mass every Sunday, 65 percent believe good Catholics can divorce and remarry, and 53 percent believe Catholics can have abortions and remain in good standing. 1999 poll by the National Catholic Reporter. http://www.catholictradition.org/v2-bombs14b.htm
Comparing Catholics and other Americans, 44% of Catholics claimed to be "absolutely committed" to their faith versus 54% of the entire adult population, and donated about 17% less money to churches; was 38% less likely than the average American to read the Bible; 67% less likely to attend a Sunday school class; 20% less likely to share their faith in Christ with someone who had different beliefs; 24% less likely to say their religious faith has greatly transformed their life; and were 36% less likely to have an "active faith," (defined as reading the Bible, praying and attending a church service during the prior week.) Yet Catholics were 16% more likely than the norm to attend a church service and 8% more likely to have prayed to God during the prior week. Catholics Have Become Mainstream America, Barna research, July 9, 2007 http://www.barna.org/faith-spirituality/100-catholics-have-become-mainstream-america
40% Roman Catholics vs. 41% Non-R.C. see abortion as "morally acceptable"; Sex between unmarried couples: 67% vs. 57%; Baby out of wedlock: 61% vs. 52%; Homosexual relations: 54% vs. 45%; Gambling: 72% vs. 59% http://www.gallup.com/poll/117154/Catholics-Similar-Mainstream-Abortion-Stem-Cells.aspx
Committed Roman Catholics (church attendance weekly or almost) versus Non-R.C. faithful church goers (see the below as as morally acceptable): Abortion: 24% R.C. vs. 19% Non-R.C.; Sex between unmarried couples: 53% vs. 30%; Baby out of wedlock: 48% vs. 29%; Homosexual relations: 44% vs. 21%; Gambling: 67% vs. 40%; Divorce: 63 vs. 46% ^
Catholic women have an abortion rate 29 percent higher than Protestants. Alan Guttmacher Institute http://www.catholicleague.org/research/Catholic_women_and_abortion.htm
26 percent of Catholics (2007) polled strongly agree with the Church's unequivocal position on abortion Catholic World Report; 2997 survey of 1,000 Catholic Americans by Roper Center for Public Opinion Research at the University of Connecticut
46 percent of Catholics who say they attend mass weekly accept Church teaching on abortion; 43 percent accept the all-male priesthood; and 30 percent see contraception as morally wrong. ^
31% of faithful Catholics (those who attend church weekly, 2004) say abortion should be legal either in "many" or in "all" cases. 2004, The Gallup Organization Gallup Survey for Catholics Speak Out: 802 Catholics, May 1992, MOE ± 4%
When ask to choose, three-fourths of all Protestant pastors surveyed said [2009] they are pro-life, and 13 percent said they were pro-choice. LifeWay Research; http://www.lifeway.com/ArticleView?storeId=10054&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&article=LifeWay-Research-protestant-pastors-share-views-on-gay-marriage-abortion
In a 2010 LifeWay Research survey 77 percent of American Protestant pastors (57% of mainline versus 87% evangelical) strongly disagree with same-sex marriage, with 6% percent somewhat disagreeing, and 5% being somewhat in agreement and 10 percent strongly agreeing. (5% of evangelical).
Only 3% of evangelical pastors (versus 11% mainline) somewhat agree that there is nothing wrong with homosexual marriage.
11% of evangelical pastors (versus 30% mainline) somewhat agree that homosexual civil unions are acceptable, with 67% of the former and 38% of the latter strongly disagreeing with homosexual civil unions. October 2010 LifeWay Research survey of 1,000 randomly selected Protestant pastors. http://www.lifeway.com/ArticleView?storeId=10054&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&article=LifeWay-Research-protestant-pastors-oppose-homosexual-marriage
A 2002 nationwide poll of 1,854 priests in the United States and Puerto Rico reported that 30% of Roman Catholic priests described themselves as Liberal, 28% as Conservative, and 37% as Moderate in their Religious ideology. 53 percent responded that they thought it always was a sin for unmarried people to have sexual relations; 32 percent that is often was, and 9 percent seldom/never. However, nearly four in 10 younger priests in 2002 described themselves as conservative, and were more likely to regard as "always a sin" such acts as premarital sex, abortion, artificial birth control, homosexual relations, etc., and three-fourths said they were more religiously orthodox than their older counterparts. Los Angeles Times (extensive) nationwide survey (2002). http://www.bishop-accountability.org/resources/resource-files/reports/LAT-Priest-Survey.pdf http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1141/is_2_39/ai_94129129/pg_2
The survey also found that 80% of Roman Catholic priests referred to themselves as “mostly” heterosexual in orientation, with 67% being exclusively heterosexual, 8% leaning toward heterosexual, 5% completely in the middle, and 6% leaning toward homosexual and 9% saying they are homosexual, for a combined figure of 15% on the homosexual class. Among younger priests (those ordained for 20 years or less) the figure was 23%. ^
One-third of surveyed priests said they “do not waver” from their vow of celibacy, while 47% described celibacy as “an ongoing journey” and 14% said they “do not always succeed in following” it. 2% said celibacy is not relevant to their priesthood and they do not observe it. not celibate. ^
71 percent of priests responded that it always was wrong for a woman to get an abortion, 19 percent that it often was, and 4 percent seldom/never. ^
28 percent judged that is always was sin for married couples to use artificial birth control, 25 percent often, 40 percent never. ^
49 percent affirmed that it was always a sin to engage in homosexual behavior, often, 25 percent; and never, 19 percent. ^
To take one's own life if suffering from a debilitating disease: always, 59 percent; often, 18 percent; never, 17 percent. ^
15 percent of the clergy polled listed themselves as "gay or on the homosexual side." Among younger priests 23 percent did so. Los Angeles Times (extensive) nationwide survey (2002). http://www.bishop-accountability.org/resources/resource-files/reports/LAT-Priest-Survey.pdf
44 percent of the priests said "definitely" a homosexual subculture'--defined as a `definite group of persons that has its own friendships, social gatherings and vocabulary'--exists in their diocese or religious order. ^
After examining the official web sites of 244 Catholic universities and colleges in America, the TFP Student Action found that 107 – or 43% have pro-homosexual clubs. TFP Student Action Dec. 6. 2011; studentaction.org/get-involved/online-petitions/pro-homosexual-clubs-at-107-catholic-colleges/print.html
39 percent of Roman Catholics and 79 percent of born-again, evangelical or fundamentalist American Christians affirm that homosexual behavior is sinful. LifeWay (SBC) Research study, released Wednesday. 2008 LifeWay Research study. http://www.christianpost.com/article/20080606/survey-americans-divided-on-homosexuality-as-sin.htm
79 percent of American Jews, 58 percent of Catholics and 56 percent of mainline Protestants favor acceptance of homosexuality, versus 39 percent of members of historically black churches, 27 percent of Muslims and 26 percent of the evangelical Protestants. U.S. U.S. Religious landscape survey; Copyright © 2008 The Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life. http://religions.pewforum.org/comparisons#
56% of Catholics overall (and 46% of the general public) believe that sexual relations between two adults of the same gender is not a sin, while 39%. of Catholics say homosexual behavior is morally wrong, (versus 76% of white evangelicals and 66% of black Protestants, and 40% of Mainline Protestants). 41% of Catholics do not consider homosexual behavior to be a moral issue. (Pew Research Center, Religion & Politics Survey, 2009; PRRI/RNS Religion News Survey, October 2010; http://publicreligion.org/site/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Catholics-and-LGBT-Issues-Survey-Report.pdf)
Catholics testify [2010] to showing more support (in numbers) for legal recognitions of same-sex relationships than members of any other Christian tradition, and Americans overall. Almost three-quarters of Catholics favor either allowing gay and lesbian people to marry or allowing them to form civil unions (43% and 31% respectively). Only 22% of Catholics said there should be no legal recognition of a gay couple’s relationship. (PRRI, Pre--election American Values Survey, 9/2010; http://publicreligion.org/site/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Catholics-and-LGBT-Issues-Survey-Report.pdf.)
This 2010 survey of more than 3,000 adults found that 41% of White American Catholics, 45% of Latino Catholics (versus 16 percent of White evangelical Christians, and 23% of Black Protestants) supported the rights of same-sex couples to marry, and 36% (22% of Latino Catholics) supported civil unions (versus 24% of White evangelicals, and 25% of Black Protestants). Among the general public the rates were 37 and 27 percent.
69% of Catholics disagree that homosexual orientation can be changed, versus 23% who believe that they can change. ^
19% of White Catholics, 30% of Latino Catholics, 58% of White evangelicals, 52% of Black Protestants and 29% of White Mainline Protestants oppose any legal recognition of homosexual marriage. ^
60% of Catholics overall, and 53% of the general public favor allowing homosexual couples to adopt children. ^
73% of Catholics favor laws that would protect gay and lesbian people against discrimination in the workplace, and 63% favor allowing homosexuals to serve openly in the military. For the general public the figures are 68% and 58% respectively. ^
49% of Catholics and 45% of the general public agree that homosexuals should be eligible for ordination with no special requirements. ^
Tell me when to stop because there is lots more . Thus regardless of your "I defy you," i have. Long for the Inquisition much?
Daniel - an excellent post that demonstrates the fallacy of RCC, as put forth on these threads. What percent of RCCs are actually Christians? Based on the broad swath of statistical evidence of a changed life, it does not appear to be many. Sadly. I wish it were otherwise. It is up to Him to open eyes and hearts.
No. Bones are bones. No way of telling whose they are just by looking at them and DNA testing can't prove anything.
was everyone buried in tombs back then? even the poorest?
Wow! What telling bunch of statistics.
So one more time. And once more, I could give a rats ass what some skewed poll says. Not my fault that the Catholic Church is full of hypocrites (like any protestant denomination). The teachings of the Catechism of the Catholic Church is what it’s all about. Not the individual desires of anyone.
What evangelical “church” believes in NO ABORITON OF ANY KIND, FOR ANY REASON. NO WOMEN PREACHERS, AND WILL NOT ORDAIN OPENLY HOMOSEXUAL MEN.
And if you think the media that constantly blasts the Catholic Church for not ordaining women, their stance on abortion, and no homosexual clergy and no same-sex “marriage”, thinks the Catholic Church is liberal you need a reality check. Your hated of the Catholic Church clouds reality.
Lastly, ignoring the morons that call themselves Catholic and voted for Obama, the number of devout practicing Catholics that abide by their church’s teachings, voted for Romney 60% to 42 for Obama. The number of Catholics that voted for the conservative candidate dwarfs any protestant denomination in the country.
But one more thing before I go. Catholic Charities is the biggest faith based charity in the United States. And the Knights of Columbus does more than any protestant fraternal organization. Would you like for me to tell you how many Catholic hospitals there are in the United States. Catholics started the first hospitals in the country. I could go on, but I’m getting tired.
I noticed you posted some sources but didn’t on others....hmmm. It would sure be nice if the sources could be live links.
I also noted that most of your sources were non-Catholic or even anti-Catholic. Tell me your not biased, please.
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