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We've Crossed A Tipping Point: Most Americans Now Receive Govt. Benefits (Happy Dependence Day!)
Forbes ^ | 7/02/2014 @ 4:45PM | Merill Matthews

Posted on 07/03/2014 11:57:08 PM PDT by quesney

Obamacare has pushed us over the entitlements tipping point. In 2011 some 49.2 percent of U.S. households received benefits from one or more government programs—about 151 million out of an estimated 306.8 million Americans—according to U.S. Census Bureau data released last October.

Currently, around 6 million to 7 million Americans who have signed up for Obamacare are receiving taxpayer-provided subsidies (though the administration’s numbers cannot be trusted, it’s all we have to work with). There are another 3 million who have signed up for Medicaid.

That means some 10 million Americans—or a total of about 161 million—are now getting government subsidies (though the final number might be somewhat lower since some may have been receiving benefits already).

Thus, perhaps 52 percent of U.S. households—more than half—now receive benefits from the government, thanks to President Obama. And Mr. Entitlement is just getting started. If Obamacare is not repealed millions more will join the swelling rolls of those dependent on government handouts.

(Excerpt) Read more at forbes.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Culture/Society; Government
KEYWORDS: dependency; dependentsday; fundingtheleft; handouts; marxism; obamalegacy; redistribution; welfarestate
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1 posted on 07/03/2014 11:57:08 PM PDT by quesney
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To: quesney

I believe most receive a social security check.

That would be an earned benefit that was not optional.


2 posted on 07/04/2014 12:00:01 AM PDT by Jim from C-Town (The government is rarely benevolent, often malevolent and never benign!)
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To: quesney

Romney said the 47% comment and there was an uproar. He was right.

He was also right about Russia.


3 posted on 07/04/2014 12:02:06 AM PDT by TigerClaws
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To: quesney

There’s “government benefits” and then there’s government benefits. Many here, myself included, receive a disability payment from the US Department of Veteran’s Affairs for injuries, wounds, ailments and conditions received as a part of service to the country in uniform. Others get the military retirement they worked for 20 or 30 years to become vested in. Still others get the Social Security retirement they contributed to during their working lives. I do not equate the above with TANF, SNAP, SSDI, unemployment insurance, worker’s compensation, Section 8 or the like, do you?


4 posted on 07/04/2014 12:02:34 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out for himself.)
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To: TigerClaws

The rest of us are just barely scraping by whilst financing them.


5 posted on 07/04/2014 12:03:58 AM PDT by Salamander (He ain't heavy, he's my Boa.)
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To: quesney

Detroit is our future unless the crooked DemocRats get voted out.


6 posted on 07/04/2014 12:12:10 AM PDT by VRWC For Truth (Roberts has perverted the Constitution)
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To: quesney

Get Obama in president ya know! He gave us a phone!


7 posted on 07/04/2014 12:12:33 AM PDT by Viennacon (Rebuke the Repuke!)
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To: quesney

Brings new meaning to...

“Oh waiter, check please!”


8 posted on 07/04/2014 12:15:33 AM PDT by Berlin_Freeper ("Finally, I have to mention a man who made life at the WH very sweet- Crustmaster & his crack pies")
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I’m with you, 2ndDivisionVet. There are definitely different kinds of government payments, but some people put all the benefits into one basket. That gives them the ability to say over 50% receive benefits. While that is a terribly high percentage, it doesn’t reveal the different kinds of benefits.

Military veterans, for example, earn their benefits by serving the country. The “benefits” are payment for service rendered. Then you have people who receive Social Security benefits after contributing to the program for decades. I do not equate the above beneficiaries with those who receive handouts simply for being born or sneaking into the country. There are even some Social Security payouts to people who have never contributed to the program. Again, that is a completely different matter than those Americans who contributed for decades and now deserve what was promised.


9 posted on 07/04/2014 12:27:37 AM PDT by CitizenUSA (Proverbs 14:34 Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a disgrace to any people.)
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To: quesney

NOW.. the law is whatever they say it is..... OR NOT..
Wimsy and Caprice are the new normal..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ex-m-eEKsg


10 posted on 07/04/2014 12:43:48 AM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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To: CitizenUSA

I have the same question about SS “benefits”. As I see it, for those who have paid into the system most of their adult working lives, it is an account payable for government. It is not a government benefit.


11 posted on 07/04/2014 12:47:57 AM PDT by Dapper 26
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
If you listen to a few of the gen-x/y/z FReepers, you/me are just as big a leech as the inner city zombies with Obunga-foams.

To them, there is no "earned it" if they think they have to pay for part of it. They do not care how much we paid into it with years of income, blood, whatever.

All they care about is getting out from under it.

12 posted on 07/04/2014 12:49:06 AM PDT by doorgunner69
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To: doorgunner69

Many of those are Libertarian/Ayn Rand fan-boy Paulestinian Rontards. Others are people that were “too busy” to serve, like Mr. Obama and many others. I could give a $#*+ what they think about what you and I did.


13 posted on 07/04/2014 12:57:50 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out for himself.)
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To: Dapper 26

Some of the more libertarian FReepers are against all such benefits, but I think it’s immoral to simply cut off people who have worked or contributed to their benefits. A military veteran is simply not the same as a welfare mom, and some on the right group them together in order to make a political argument. Over 50% receiving benefits sounds much worse than 20% or whatever on welfare. E

ven welfare moms shouldn’t simply be cut off if you ask me. These handouts need to go away over time so that people who are dependent on them can adapt. I know this isn’t a pure solution many want, but I think gradual reform leading to elimination of most of these programs is more moral. My fear is that the politicians will bankrupt the system before they’ll accomplish any reform.

I do know it’s absolutely wrong to not pay benefits that were actually earned or paid into by the recipients. That’s thievery.


14 posted on 07/04/2014 12:59:06 AM PDT by CitizenUSA (Proverbs 14:34 Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a disgrace to any people.)
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To: quesney

Speaking of Independence Day, check out Google’s doodle for today.

Looks like magical music day.
No American flags.
No founding fathers stuff.
No red, white and blue.


15 posted on 07/04/2014 1:04:01 AM PDT by RandallFlagg (Uninstall Fascist Firefox. Get Pale Moon.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Some of the libertarians really don’t care if the elderly are tossed out in the streets when Social Security fails. Hey. I don’t like Social Security and would have opted out of it long ago. I’d probably STILL opt out, and I’m nearly eligible to collect. Regardless, I’d do whatever I could to preserve benefits for those who paid into it and are now retired on Social Security. Actually, that’s what you and I have done for decades. We’ve paid in so that others could retire.

Again, I’m all for cutting Social Security over time, and I want the young to have a chance to opt out if they wish. If Social Security is really such a good deal as Democrats claim, surely they wouldn’t oppose letting people choose to enroll, right? It’s such a great deal, plenty of people would still pay in with no ability to pass their contributions on as inheritance or earn anything approaching a normal investment...NOT. And that is exactly why the Democrats won’t open these programs up, because people would opt out in droves. It’s about POWER!


16 posted on 07/04/2014 1:06:09 AM PDT by CitizenUSA (Proverbs 14:34 Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a disgrace to any people.)
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To: CitizenUSA; Dapper 26

Welfare reform was passed in the 90’s and signed into law by President Clinton. It limited lifetime benefits. I was there when it happened, teaching recipients how to look for work at the state unemployment office. Many of those women finally decided to go to work. BTW, we (taxpayers) had paid for many of them to attend college or trade schools and they “still couldn’t find a job” (in a city with 3% unemployment!) until the law came about. Then, miraculously, they found work. Mr. Obama rescinded those requirements.


17 posted on 07/04/2014 1:09:20 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out for himself.)
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To: RandallFlagg

Kind of a country-independent independence day, an oxymoron.


18 posted on 07/04/2014 1:10:55 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
I can't open the link and read the article but one point is that there are more people in the wagon than there are pulling it.

SS, if you live to be 80 you will probably take out far more than you put in. Of course if you had conservatively invested that money you would be much better off.

19 posted on 07/04/2014 1:45:42 AM PDT by Eagles6 (Valley Forge Redux. If not now, when? If not here, where?)
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To: Eagles6
"...if you had conservatively invested that money you would be much better off."

You weren't given that option. Remember the moaning and gnashing of teeth when President Bush tried to allow you to do so with a small percentage of your funds?

20 posted on 07/04/2014 1:51:47 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out for himself.)
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To: quesney

Still in the chump category over here.


21 posted on 07/04/2014 1:54:46 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: 2ndDivisionVet; Jim from C-Town

Point is - there’s no lockbox or anything where your contributions were saved. They spent it all.

The money that goes to pay for your benefits come straight from the government, which gets it from an ever-shrinking number of working taxpayers. Whatever you “contributed”, it’s effectively a government benefit that can be changed at the whim of politicians and the general public.

It’s not your private property. It’s not “yours”. It’s a government entitlement that is as hollow a promise as every other political promise that’s going to go belly up as the US economy continues to decline and the government runs out of other people’s money.

Happy Dependence Day!


22 posted on 07/04/2014 2:44:48 AM PDT by quesney (e)
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To: doorgunner69

“If you listen to a few of the gen-x/y/z FReepers, you/me are just as big a leech as the inner city zombies with Obunga-foams. To them, there is no “earned it” if they think they have to pay for part of it. They do not care how much we paid into it with years of income, blood, whatever.All they care about is getting out from under it.”

It’s sad, but true, and I’m afraid the tension is going to get worse as the pie shrinks and everyone finds it harder to survive. It’s going to get very ugly over the next few years and the safest thing to do will be to count on yourself and the friends and family around you and prepare for the worst.

Much of the American “economy” right now is the land of the dying or the living dead.


23 posted on 07/04/2014 2:50:31 AM PDT by quesney (e)
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To: doorgunner69

” All they care about is getting out from under it. “

Can you blame them - system will be even worse (probably non-existent) for them. They’re basically pouring their income into a black hole.


24 posted on 07/04/2014 2:52:36 AM PDT by quesney (e)
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To: quesney
It’s not your private property. It’s not “yours”. It’s a government entitlement that is as hollow a promise as every other political promise that’s going to go belly up as the US economy continues to decline and the government runs out of other people’s money.

I still object to it being lumped in with the welfare herd. I have been paying into Social Security since I was 14, and I'm a great-grandpa now (still not retired). With the boom/bust cycles in my industry over the decades, the money I paid into Social Security is as much as I have been able to set aside for retirement (and keep there).

I have paid more in income taxes in just the last 5 years than that amount (well over), so count that, too. Somehow, the stigma of "entitlement" doesn't fit. It isn't like I was some illegal who popped up to draw benefits--I've been paying in for half a century.

25 posted on 07/04/2014 2:59:58 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

One very important distinction about Social Security. From day one, the money taken from employees and employers to fund the program was in no way a “contribution.” It was and is a TAX. It is SEIZED at the point of a gun.

There is no “contribute” to it.


26 posted on 07/04/2014 3:00:09 AM PDT by abb
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To: quesney

There was a guy on here, I intentionally dis-remember his screen name, who flat out said that the military and veterans were no better than mercenaries and were paid what they deserved when they were in uniform and should get not one more red cent. Are you of the same opinion?


27 posted on 07/04/2014 3:03:12 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out for himself.)
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To: Smokin' Joe

From a legal standpoint, quesney is correct. There are no private property rights attached to Social Security. But you are correct as far as perception goes. Everyone who worked in the private sector paid in to it. Therefore it isn’t “welfare.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flemming_v._Nestor


28 posted on 07/04/2014 3:04:44 AM PDT by abb
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To: TigerClaws
Often being "right" is not enough.

Mittens was "right" but Obama, even with his first-term record, was re-elected.

29 posted on 07/04/2014 3:12:32 AM PDT by jamaksin
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To: quesney

To call Social Security, a mandated theft of part of my lifetime earnings, a benefit is like calling an orange jumpsuit a benefit of being in jail.


30 posted on 07/04/2014 3:18:38 AM PDT by muir_redwoods (When I first read it, " Atlas Shrugged" was fiction)
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To: VRWC For Truth
Well, that's the rub isn't it? What makes you think the recipients are going to vote out their paymasters?

When tipping points are reached, things tip over. We have reached the tipping point. It's over.

31 posted on 07/04/2014 3:37:31 AM PDT by Former Proud Canadian
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To: Smokin' Joe


I still object to it being lumped in with the welfare herd. I have been paying into Social Security since I was 14, and I’m a great-grandpa now (still not retired). With the boom/bust cycles in my industry over the decades, the money I paid into Social Security is as much as I have been able to set aside for retirement (and keep there).

I have paid more in income taxes in just the last 5 years than that amount (well over), so count that, too. Somehow, the stigma of “entitlement” doesn’t fit. It isn’t like I was some illegal who popped up to draw benefits—I’ve been paying in for half a century.[/i]


Please don’t misunderstand me, and I don’t think you do, but just to make sure I’m clear: I’m not talking about what’s right/deserved. I’m talking about reality. The reality is, from a purely financial perspective, there is no “pension fund”. There is no savings safebox where everything you contributed has been held. It’s all been spent.

The money being paid to social security beneficiaries comes out of general tax revenue paid by an ever-shrinking number of ever-poorer, ever-more-burdened (on average) working taxpayers. From a pure, financial-reality perspective, it’s a government benefit and, politically, will be treated as such. The government is using other people’s money to pay your benefits. It’s not drawing on any secured stash of your past contributions - those contributions are all gone.

Government benefits are government spending paid for tax revenue from current taxpayers (and borrowing).

The time to argue about that is long past, after years of government spending more or taxing less and saving less than it should have and never treating your contributions as your property in the first place.

Is it right, no? Is it reality, yes. Is it going to get uglier, absolutely. Brace yourself.


32 posted on 07/04/2014 3:38:42 AM PDT by quesney (e)
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To: abb


One very important distinction about Social Security. From day one, the money taken from employees and employers to fund the program was in no way a “contribution.” It was and is a TAX. It is SEIZED at the point of a gun.

There is no “contribute” to it.


Absolutely right. It’s not like a mutual fund or a savings account that remained your property. Your property was taken and spent.


33 posted on 07/04/2014 3:41:12 AM PDT by quesney (e)
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To: Jim from C-Town

“I believe most receive a social security check. That would be an earned benefit that was not optional.”

I agree that people have been forced to contribute to this, and thus are entitled to something. I do take issue with the fact that 1) I’m being warned by my government that the funds coming out of my check today, while being given to current retirees, will not be available for my retirement (what do I owe them?), and 2) the same government (regardless of which head of the Republocrat hydra is in office) distorts inflation figures so that it doesn’t have to meet its true Social Security obligations.

I am maintaining a standard of living for current retirees that will not be reciprocated when I retire in a few decades; it is cold comfort that the government is offering legal avenues for older people to off themselves...


34 posted on 07/04/2014 3:44:39 AM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic warfare against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet


There was a guy on here, I intentionally dis-remember his screen name, who flat out said that the military and veterans were no better than mercenaries and were paid what they deserved when they were in uniform and should get not one more red cent. Are you of the same opinion?

I think the military is the only part of our government I respect, but that doesn’t change the financial reality I described. Is it fair? Obviously not. But this is the mess, blown up over decades, by the irresponsible politicians we collectively voted for.

G*d save America, because it doesn’t look like Americans will.


35 posted on 07/04/2014 3:44:44 AM PDT by quesney (e)
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To: quesney

There is a real distinction between the legal issue and the practical political issue. Everyone knows about the legal status of SS.

But the “implied contract” was that if you worked and payed into it, you would collect at retirement.


36 posted on 07/04/2014 3:45:30 AM PDT by abb
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To: abb

“From a legal standpoint, quesney is correct. There are no private property rights attached to Social Security. But you are correct as far as perception goes. Everyone who worked in the private sector paid in to it. Therefore it isn’t “welfare.””


Let me see if I can make a clearer distinction here.

It is different from other government benefits in that you contributed to what you might have thought at some point was a secure, protected pension that was virtually your private property.

But it exactly like other government benefits in that, because what you contributed was **stolen/raided/spent***, the money to pay your social security comes directly from other currently working taxpayers.

The burden to those taxpayers is the same as the burden to them of funding other government benefits. And that burden is going to grow - dramatically - in the years to come.


37 posted on 07/04/2014 3:51:41 AM PDT by quesney (e)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

“Welfare reform was passed in the 90’s and signed into law by President Clinton. It limited lifetime benefits. I was there when it happened, teaching recipients how to look for work at the state unemployment office. Many of those women finally decided to go to work.”

I remember that as well; it was sad to see how ill-prepared many of them were for the workforce. The lasting legacy of the 1996 welfare reform will be the drop in the black birthrate; within a few years Hispanics, who had been predicted to pass blacks in numbers by 2010, had pssed them ten years earlier than that. “Anglos” should have seen the writing on the wall at that point; they are still being fed absurd projections to prevent a panic or reaction.


38 posted on 07/04/2014 3:54:50 AM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic warfare against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: quesney

http://www.forbes.com/sites/merrillmatthews/2014/07/02/weve-crossed-the-tipping-point-most-americans-now-receive-government-benefits/


39 posted on 07/04/2014 3:58:34 AM PDT by CGASMIA68
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To: Former Proud Canadian


Well, that’s the rub isn’t it? What makes you think the recipients are going to vote out their paymasters?
When tipping points are reached, things tip over. We have reached the tipping point. It’s over.

Bingo - many of the posts here make that point even more effectively. It’s over, and there is no chance of a reset without a painful collapse.


40 posted on 07/04/2014 3:59:19 AM PDT by quesney (e)
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To: abb


There is a real distinction between the legal issue and the practical political issue. Everyone knows about the legal status of SS.

But the “implied contract” was that if you worked and payed into it, you would collect at retirement.


The Constitution was also an implied contract. Does anyone here think it really holds any weight any more - at least among those in power. The US is not what it was and we all bear some responsibility for what it has become.


41 posted on 07/04/2014 4:03:02 AM PDT by quesney (e)
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To: quesney

Let them dig their own grave. The day is coming where there won’t be a government to protect the looters and moochers from reality.


42 posted on 07/04/2014 4:03:38 AM PDT by RWB Patriot ("My ability is a value that must be earned and I don't recognize anyone's need as a claim on me.")
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To: CitizenUSA

And as Jim points out above, you can opt out from receiving SS but not from paying.
So yeah, a lot different.


43 posted on 07/04/2014 4:03:57 AM PDT by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: all armed conservatives)
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To: Salamander
Most everybody receives benefits.

Typically the young receive more than they produce as the largest benefit is a free education. After that, the individual goes thru their productive stage and receive far less, very little, or nothing. But eventually the old age entitlements kick in and depending on how long they live, can receive benefits far exceeding what they have paid in during their productive years. Pity the man who paid into his old age entitlements then died at age 64.

44 posted on 07/04/2014 4:09:11 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: quesney

I used to have respect for the military. They have sat by and watched the Klown for far too long at this point. A military coup in the US would not be good but the Klown is worse.


45 posted on 07/04/2014 4:18:33 AM PDT by wastoute (Government cannot redistribute wealth. Government can only redistribute poverty.)
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To: CitizenUSA
some people put all the benefits into one basket. That gives them the ability to say over 50% receive benefits. While that is a terribly high percentage, it doesn’t reveal the different kinds of benefits.

Nothing changes the cold, hard fact that there are more people receiving government checks than there are people paying into the money pot. Describing some government payment checks as more acceptable than others does not change simple arithmetic.

The current situation with more people receiving money than paying into funding is unsustainable.

46 posted on 07/04/2014 4:21:44 AM PDT by NautiNurse (Obama sends U.S. Marines to pick up his dog & basketballs. Benghazi? Nope.)
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To: wastoute

The military’s relationship to the public has changed so much over the years; when I was born there was a draft, then the military was scaled back. A contrived war in Iraq briefly drove the numbers up, and now that we’ve lost in Iraq & Afghanistan many people (and the military itself) no longer see any need for a large standing military. When people are having a hard time making ends meet, they see no point in a large workfare program (especially when the porous southern border is unprotected and drug violence has crossed into our country).

A friend who left in the mid 90s described it as an “armed Red Cross”; it couldn’t justify the massive cost.


47 posted on 07/04/2014 4:28:44 AM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic warfare against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I see it in the basic form, there’s benefits you earn and ones you don’t.


48 posted on 07/04/2014 4:30:10 AM PDT by jughandle (Big words anger me, keep talking.)
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To: CitizenUSA

I have been forking out money for Social Security for about 30 years... If I even make it to “retirement”... I don’t expect a single dime of this theft under color of law will be left... that is unless all these kids flooding the border are sent to the collieries to pick rocks out of coal for minimum wage and 15% of their wage is theived away from them to pay into this Ponzi scheme.

I guarantee anything that at some point the government will deem male homosexuals as inferior to heteros or turkeybaster clamlickers... only because they biologically can not produce “revenue sources”.


49 posted on 07/04/2014 4:31:15 AM PDT by Rodamala
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To: quesney

I understand all that. But I reject the assertion that I bear part of the blame. I always vote, study the issues, and make an informed choice, usually for the conservative candidate. I worked for 40 years, paid taxes, including SS. I have worked in numerous campaigns and run for office myself. I always go to all the local government meetings - city council, school board, etc. - and report on what happens therein. So I’m doing my part to supplant the State-Run Media complex.

And I have no feelings of guilt whatsoever when I cash my SS check each month.


50 posted on 07/04/2014 4:49:38 AM PDT by abb
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