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New Fossil Book Won't Showcase Obvious Catastrophe (article)
Institute for Creation Research ^ | June 17, 2013 | Brian Thomas

Posted on 06/20/2013 6:51:51 AM PDT by fishtank

New Fossil Book Won't Showcase Obvious Catastrophe by Brian Thomas, M.S. *

Not just horses and fish, but—like a whole ancient zoo buried together—lizards, alligators, stingrays, snakes, squirrel varieties, bats, long-tailed turtles, lemur-like primates, birds, frogs, insects, and sycamore, palm, and fern leaves were all fossilized in Wyoming's Green River Formation. A new book showcasing some of the more spectacular fossils provides secularists another opportunity to reinforce their ideas about how these diverse creatures were encased in what became a giant rock formation. Commonsense observations refute their slow-and-gradual scenario, however, and point to a more violent explanation.

Lance Grande collected the stunning fossil images for the book, The Lost World of Fossil Lake: Snapshots from Deep Time. He works as one of the curators at Chicago's Field Museum of Natural History. One of his images shows a now-extinct variety of horse—one with a tiny stature and long hind legs for its size—surrounded by fossil fish. Horses and fish don't usually hang out together, but apparently they died together. How did they end up in the same fossilized bed?

LiveScience featured some of the book's images on its website, including the "Mini-Horse." There, its image caption reads, "Researchers aren't sure how the horse ended up at the bottom of the middle of Fossil Lake but they suspect it drowned, possibly trying to escape a predator."1 Then, supposedly its carcass sank neatly to the bottom without having been scavenged by any of the many fish represented in the formation's fossils.

The horse body's next trick also defied commonsense. According to LiveScience, "Over thousands of years, dead animals rained down into the muck deep below the surface of long-gone Fossil Lake."2 Not only does the slow-and-gradual story require a magic wand to wave off the persistent problem of scavenging, but it calls upon the ancient deep "muck" to do what experiments have shown it cannot do—keep a carcass from rotting away to nothing.

And what strange process preserved these animal bodies so well as they supposedly rested on the lake bed before the slow-settling sediments covered and buried them over the long years? This story defies horse sense. Clearly, they had to have been buried deeply by fast-building sediment in order to preserve at such high quality.

Supposedly, a lack of oxygen preserved the whole carcasses. But God created microbes to function even without readily available oxygen. The problem is that fish and other animal carcasses rot in just a few weeks, even when buried in mud that has very little oxygen.3 What the scavengers don't eat, anoxic microbes quickly consume. That is why today's anoxic lake and ocean bottom muds form no fossils.

Whatever buried the horse did so rapidly and catastrophically. Fast-flowing water mixed with fresh volcanic ash and washed over the diverse assembly of creatures, burying them alive and trapping them in the Green River's series of basins.

The Genesis Flood provides a context for that catastrophe. Some creation geologists suggest that residual catastrophes immediately after the Flood formed Green River Formation, while others propose that it formed when water ran off the continents in the waning Flood months. Either scenario sets a catastrophic-enough stage to trump slow-and-gradual speculations and to bury alligators, horses, lizards, and fish together quickly and completely.

References

Gannon, M. Images: Stingray Sex, Mini-Horses & Other Curiosities of Fossil Lake. LiveScience. Posted on LiveScience.com June 9, 2013, accessed June 10, 2013.

Gannon, M. Lost World Locked in Stone at Fossil Lake. LiveScience. Posted on LiveScience.com June 9, 2013, accessed June 10, 2013.

Donovan, S.K., (Ed.) 1991. The Process of fossilization. New York: Columbia University Press, 120-129.

Image credit: Lance Grande from The Lost World of Fossil Lake: Snapshots from Deep Time, © 2013, the University of Chicago Press. Adapted for use in accordance with federal copyright (fair use doctrine) law. Usage by ICR does not imply endorsement of copyright holders.

* Mr. Thomas is Science Writer at the Institute for Creation Research.

Article posted on June 17, 2013.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: agitprop; belongsinreligion; catastrophe; creation; creationism; evolutionisreligion; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; hoax; lancegrande; lostworldofossillake; notagggtopic; notanewstopic; notasciencetopic; realscience; science; truescience; yenonsense
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Images cited in ICR article.

1 posted on 06/20/2013 6:51:51 AM PDT by fishtank
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To: fishtank

Could be the work of a tidal wave that swept them all into one grave.


2 posted on 06/20/2013 7:04:03 AM PDT by Rapscallion (Obama is trying to use the power of the government against the people he dislikes.)
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To: fishtank

More pseudoscience from the Institute of Creative Imagination.


3 posted on 06/20/2013 7:05:33 AM PDT by ZULU ((See: http://gatesofvienna.net/) Obama, do you hear me?)
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To: fishtank

Some creation geologists suggest

<><><><>

What is a creation geologist?


4 posted on 06/20/2013 7:12:09 AM PDT by dmz
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To: fishtank

Evolution raises it’s heretical head ... again!


5 posted on 06/20/2013 7:13:58 AM PDT by OldNavyVet
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To: fishtank
Researchers aren't sure how the horse ended up at the bottom of the middle of Fossil Lake but they suspect it drowned, possibly trying to escape a predator.

Noah tossed him off the ark for disobeying the "no horseplay" rule.

6 posted on 06/20/2013 7:16:56 AM PDT by humblegunner
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To: fishtank

Good argument for these fossils coming from a catastrophe but not necessarily an argument that ALL fossils come from a catastrophe. It is troubling that science avoids catastrophic causes for past processes when even by my short time on earth that large sudden events do occur and have major impacts on environment.


7 posted on 06/20/2013 7:20:35 AM PDT by Raycpa
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To: fishtank; SunkenCiv

8 posted on 06/20/2013 7:24:04 AM PDT by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
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To: Rapscallion
Could be the work of a tidal wave that swept them all into one grave.

From DARWIN'S GHOST by Steve Jones ... page 202.

"Human remains in peat bogs retain the hair, clothes and pained expressions of their original owners. As the flesh was tanned by acids in the soil, the bones were dissolved to leave mere bags of skin. Animals can topple into lakes of pitch as the La Brea Tar Pits of Los Angeles or stick to tree gum that turns into amber. All the household means against decay -- deep frozen mammoths, Spanish wooly rhinos marinated in a salty swamp, ground sloths in south American caves reduced to beef jerky by slow evaporation -- help to conserve these Mona Lisas of the fossil record."

9 posted on 06/20/2013 7:25:54 AM PDT by OldNavyVet
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To: humblegunner

Couldn’t possibly have been buried there due to a catastrophic worldwide flood. Must have run there “trying to escape a predator”.


10 posted on 06/20/2013 7:26:12 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: Raycpa

If you leave a corpse of any living thing out for “gradual processes” to affect, it just rots, it doesn’t fossilize.

It would have to be suddenly buried under great amounts of pressure. A catastrophe.


11 posted on 06/20/2013 7:27:30 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: fishtank

Based on the location in modern day Wyoming, this may coincide with one of Yellowstone’s past super volcano eruptions. The next one will include human remains with cameras strapped to their necks. “Oh look honey, Old Faithful!”


12 posted on 06/20/2013 7:27:42 AM PDT by katana (Just my opinions)
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To: ZULU

More pseudoscience from the Institute of Creative Imagination.


Did you even read the article? The author presents a very good argument that given the blend of animals and the setting in which they were found it’s extremely unlikely that they were fossilized the way that secular psuedoscientists postulate. He then concludes that the Bible presents a very feasible explanation that matches very well with the evidence presented in this book.

What’s your guess as to how these fossils were made?


13 posted on 06/20/2013 7:28:42 AM PDT by ne1410s (Proverbs 17:7 Eloquent lips are unsuited to a godless fool - how much worse lying lips to a ruler!)
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To: dmz
What is a creation geologist?

My understanding is different scientists believe that the bible is true and if its true it will lead them to discoveries about our world. I used to follow some of the biblical archaeology scientists/researchers and they claim making discoveries of ancient buildings based on using the bible where others have discounted its value as a source.

I trust that the scientific method will endure faulty approaches from creationists. I also trust the bible will always stand as being true.

God does not change. His creation is His work and does not change by man's ignorance. Only man's understanding of God's creation changes.

14 posted on 06/20/2013 7:28:57 AM PDT by Raycpa
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To: fishtank

Interesting. A localized worldwide flood.


15 posted on 06/20/2013 7:30:41 AM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: fishtank

Catastrophe on a global scale is acceptable to geologists only if it doesn’t involve water....Asteroids, volcanoes, earthquakes, any and all but under no circumstances is a global inundation to be mentioned unless to it is to mock the idea.


16 posted on 06/20/2013 7:34:11 AM PDT by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough)
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To: dmz
What is a creation geologist?

Another quote from Darwin's Ghost ...

"The creationist movement is part of a triumphal New Ignorance the rules in many places, the United States more than most."

17 posted on 06/20/2013 7:34:26 AM PDT by OldNavyVet
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To: Raycpa

It depends on how you want to define catastrophe. Fore example, a 500 year flood or massive landslide may be locally catastrophic, but events that take place on anything greater than a regional level are extremely rare. As far as “major impacts on the environment”, disturbance is what guides many processes, and while they may effect subpopulations or small regions, organisms and geomorphology are much more subject to long-term gradual change.


18 posted on 06/20/2013 7:35:07 AM PDT by stormer
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To: MrB
Really? Meet Tollund Man.

He's a bit past his "freshness date", but he looks pretty spry for being over 2,000 years old.

19 posted on 06/20/2013 7:54:08 AM PDT by stormer
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To: stormer

I’m not attempting to define catastrophe. I am observing that most attempts at describing past events seem to be biased toward gradual changes over time (with an exception for Niagra falls).

A similar bias I observe is attributing ancient pieces of art such as pottery as being created for religious purposes. Our observations of current human behavior (pet rocks is one example) is we humans sometimes create stuff “just because its fun”.

Another bias is the assumption that ancient peoples were ignorant about all things compared to us today. My experience is that based on writings by various sources leads me to believe we are less intellectual than our ancestors. For example, the Hebrew language and biblical stories was originally understood to have multiple meanings and messages even down to each word. For us we are only able to absorb one level of meaning.


20 posted on 06/20/2013 7:54:15 AM PDT by Raycpa
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To: stormer

Are you really going to try to tell me that the corpse was left out in the elements, subject to slow, millennial processes, and preserved itself as shown in the picture?


21 posted on 06/20/2013 7:57:57 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: MrB
Couldn’t possibly have been buried there due to a catastrophic worldwide flood [caused by a wrathful, invisible sky god]. Must have run there “trying to escape a predator”.

Yeah, predators are a lot rarer than worldwide floods.

Occam's Razor.

Regards,

22 posted on 06/20/2013 8:01:10 AM PDT by alexander_busek (Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.)
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To: humblegunner

I didn’t think horses were native to the Americas. I thought the Spanish brought them over.


23 posted on 06/20/2013 8:02:49 AM PDT by sportutegrl
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To: Raycpa
My experience is that based on writings by various sources leads me to believe we are less intellectual than our ancestors.

We are more 'knowledgeable' in specific areas, but mostly ignorant of anything else. If we had to live 10,000 years ago, few of us could survive more than 3 days. Plus, they passed on knowledge to their children from the start. We let our kids look it up on Google.

For example, the Hebrew language and biblical stories was originally understood to have multiple meanings and messages even down to each word. For us we are only able to absorb one level of meaning.

Hmmmm.... the general public may be that way, but there are some exceptions. I imagine you are one.

24 posted on 06/20/2013 8:21:05 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (The monsters are due on Maple Street)
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To: ne1410s

I read the article - twice. It’s the typical Brian Thomas M.S. codswallop that in the minds of the un-, mis-, and poorly- informed passes for critical review. It’s comical, willful ignorance and the height of arrogance for him to cite Steve Donovan as a source to dispute the well understood processes of fossilization; Thomas is simply out of his intellectual and academic league.

It is not science to simply proclaim that one doesn’t believe the well supported evidence of Earth’s history because it conflicts with one’s theological view - to be taken seriously you have to go beyond saying, “Nope. God did it and everyone who actually studies this stuff is wrong.”

If you want to know how fossils are made, read one of Donovan’s books, and then start going through his countless other publications - but don’t buy into any of the crap that comes out of the ICR.


25 posted on 06/20/2013 8:23:56 AM PDT by stormer
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To: alexander_busek; MrB
Yeah, predators are a lot rarer than worldwide floods.

Good point (albeit sarcasm).

Which means the water was full of predators as well. Poor horse, predator chasing him, water full of predators.

It's a miracle there was enough left to identify.

: )

26 posted on 06/20/2013 8:25:23 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (The monsters are due on Maple Street)
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To: alexander_busek; MrB
P.S. The two fish in this picture also died of drowning. That's why they are so clearly preserved.


27 posted on 06/20/2013 8:28:28 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (The monsters are due on Maple Street)
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To: MrB

He was thrown in a lake over 2,000 years ago. He’s got a bit of company, too - there are more than 1000 examples of this type of preservation.


28 posted on 06/20/2013 8:29:03 AM PDT by stormer
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To: Raycpa
I’m not attempting to define catastrophe. I am observing that most attempts at describing past events seem to be biased toward gradual changes over time

The scientific community is as corrupt as the politicians. Too much at stake (grant money, careers) to investigate anything but "established science" and if anyone dares to bring up anomalies, they come up with lame "the horse drowned" scenarios and go out of their way to destroy the heretics.

29 posted on 06/20/2013 8:31:20 AM PDT by Oatka (This is America. Assimilate or evaporate.)
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To: UCANSEE2
OK. Even I didn't look close enough. There are THREE FISH.

Probably all drowned trying to rescue the horse.

30 posted on 06/20/2013 8:31:31 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (The monsters are due on Maple Street)
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To: UCANSEE2

Now, I’m going to go and wash the lenses of my glasses.

And hide my embarrassment. There are FOUR FISH. That I can see.


31 posted on 06/20/2013 8:33:19 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (The monsters are due on Maple Street)
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To: sportutegrl

Horses evolved in the New World, but died out in the Americas around the end of the last Ice Age.


32 posted on 06/20/2013 8:33:31 AM PDT by stormer
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To: stormer
He’s got a bit of company, too

They're even in the photo.

33 posted on 06/20/2013 8:35:16 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (The monsters are due on Maple Street)
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To: UCANSEE2

FWIW - I count 6.


34 posted on 06/20/2013 8:36:59 AM PDT by stormer
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To: ZULU

More pseudoscience from the Institute of Creative Imagination....”

can’t stand the Truth, eh????


35 posted on 06/20/2013 8:39:24 AM PDT by kimtom (USA ; Freedom is not Free)
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To: UCANSEE2

There is a fifth one over the dorsal thorax area, just a little faint. Must have been a thinner fish!


36 posted on 06/20/2013 8:41:39 AM PDT by going hot (Happiness is a momma deuce)
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To: tacticalogic
A localized worldwide flood.

Hmmmmm.... my question is.... where did the water go as the 'flood' receded ?

37 posted on 06/20/2013 8:42:24 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (The monsters are due on Maple Street)
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To: UCANSEE2; stormer
Suggested reading


38 posted on 06/20/2013 8:43:11 AM PDT by Raycpa
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To: dmz

What is a creation geologist?....””

most likely one that believes millions of years are not necessary for the formation of geological layers....which are not.
Fossils can form in a few decades (depending on how much fossilization is to take place).
Obviously millions of years are not enough for evolutionist, since soft tissue is still found......


39 posted on 06/20/2013 8:44:07 AM PDT by kimtom (USA ; Freedom is not Free)
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To: sportutegrl

I’m thinking it was a mini-horse, a proto-horse. Not what we think of as a modern horse.


40 posted on 06/20/2013 8:45:34 AM PDT by humblegunner
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To: stormer

The horse is probably laying on several, but I still haven’t cleaned my lenses.

That’s a lot of fish.


41 posted on 06/20/2013 8:45:47 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (The monsters are due on Maple Street)
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To: tacticalogic

Would be interesting to find out if the fish are fresh or salt water fish.


42 posted on 06/20/2013 8:45:55 AM PDT by going hot (Happiness is a momma deuce)
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To: kimtom

Oh, you mean a fraud.


43 posted on 06/20/2013 8:46:58 AM PDT by stormer
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To: Raycpa

Thanks, but I don’t want to get in over my head.


44 posted on 06/20/2013 8:49:37 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (The monsters are due on Maple Street)
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To: stormer

Oh, you mean a fraud....”

Nope,

maybe in the minds of the demented....?


45 posted on 06/20/2013 8:49:46 AM PDT by kimtom (USA ; Freedom is not Free)
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To: going hot
Would be interesting to find out if the fish are fresh or salt water fish.

More interesting to find out how a worldwide flood managed to miss leaving this same kind of evidence everywhere else.

46 posted on 06/20/2013 8:50:03 AM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: going hot
Must have been a thinner fish!

Probably one of those anorexic female fish.

47 posted on 06/20/2013 8:53:16 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (The monsters are due on Maple Street)
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To: tacticalogic
...Working in mysterious ways, probably. Or perhaps there simply wasn't enough waters to spread globally, so particular sites were chosen randomly?

It could happen.

48 posted on 06/20/2013 8:54:10 AM PDT by going hot (Happiness is a momma deuce)
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To: stormer
Oh, you mean a fraud.

FWIW. I appreciate learning from sources with varied backgrounds. I hold in high regard those who base arguments on evidence and logic. On the other hand when someone resorts to appeal to authority. I generally discount those who use that as lazy thinkers.

http://www.logicalfallacies.info/relevance/appeals/appeal-to-authority/

49 posted on 06/20/2013 8:54:34 AM PDT by Raycpa
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To: tacticalogic

how a worldwide flood managed to miss leaving this same kind of evidence everywhere else.,...”

there are many fossil beds (mass graves) around.


50 posted on 06/20/2013 8:55:05 AM PDT by kimtom (USA ; Freedom is not Free)
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