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| GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach | |
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Thanks Renfield. It seems to me it was a pretty great week for GGG topics. |
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Posted on 10/21/2011 5:35:24 PM PDT by Renfield
...Hearing that the entire language group including the Algonquins (and the others more generically called Algonkians) is most closely related to Old World languages with a Megalithic connection was revealing to me because the peoples with the Algonquin-related languages are also ones that are otherwise compared to Western Europeans....
~~~snip~~~
...The book Men Out Of Asia by Harold Gladwin(mcGraw Hill, 1947) was also written when a more racist view of Physical Anthropology was the norm, and the book hypothesizes a series of different movements of people into America (Gladwin assumes via the Bering Straits)Gladwin's second migration dating from 15000 to 2500 BC, which he termed Folsom and Negroid: we would tend to think more Clovis and African (Out-of-Africa Solutrean CroMagnons, to be specific)The Third Migration as Gladwin saw it was Algonquin and 2500 to 500 BC. That might have started earlier but it is probably about the right time-window for both the origin of the Language group and the derivation of Megalithic culture, allowing that it survived longer in the New World. It would also presumably include the onset of the Adena mound-building period. Gladwin notices a variety of culture traits including ground-stone celts (small axheads or tomahawk heads)cordmarked pottery and useful woodlands adaptations such as birchbark canoes and snowshoes. In part the Woodlands culture was a lot like the European Mesolithic. Gladwin makes a guess that the basic original Algonquins were probably Mediterraneans but they mixed with peoples from across the whole of Asia: we might read that as meaning of the Eurasian language Superfamily. Gladwin specifically has a point of origin in Spain at 2000-2500 BC (p143-145)....
PaleoAtlantic ping.
Algonquian languages are not organized along at all similar lines as any language I know from Europe. At all. Definitely not anything Indo-European, and probably not any pre-Indo-European substrate languages of the Mediterranean.
If I was keen on proving the author's theory, I would start analyzing proto-Algonquian grammar and see if there is any solid, regular connection with linguistic substrata in Europe (Basque, Etruscan, pre-Greek, etc.). But it's pretty doubtful. I actually came to Algonquian grammar after having studied Latin, Greek, Etruscan, Osco-Umbrian etc. It's a pretty stark difference...Mediterranean languages are typically inflected, whereas Algonquian, like many American languages, is agglutinative.
To make a long story short, I wouldn't put a whole lot of stock in this hypothesis the author lays out.
The Talkers on the Canadian side of the Akwesasne have some of the same Euro-parallel information such as the Dardenelles ``stone canoe that can go upstream by itself.`` 99% of the Talkers` knowledge is not written down- just oral transmission from thousands of years ago. They will not speak to anyone who is not Nation. [cf Greek legends,- ]
A 30 year old book, America BC, postulated that the eastern tribes, particularly the Algonkian had been influenced by Celtic travellers from Europe of 300-100 BC. The author used Caesar’s descriptions of the vessels of the Celtic Brits in The Commentaries, large nulti deck vessels with sails and oars, much larger and more sea worthy than the Roman Triremes,that could have made the cross Atlantic voyages. Also the presence of furs in Celtic and Gaulish culture that,in retrospect, do not seem native to Europe, but to America,
I was just about to ping you to this. Not surprisingly, you’re already here.
I'm a believer:
The relationships between these languages are not readily established by looking at vocabulary (since your typical agglutinative language readily absorbs words from any source). At the same time there are relationships somewhere. DNA studies suggest they are in the Western European Ice Age refugia in Iberia!
Once you know that there's a DNA sequence peculiar to the first group(s) to leave the refugia at the time of the big meltdown (14,000 years ago) it's a simple matter to look for others. That has been done ~ they are Berber, Fulbe, Sa'ami, Cherokee, Iroquois, Chippewa/Ojibway, and Yakuts.
Lotsa walkin'.
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| GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach | |
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Thanks Renfield. It seems to me it was a pretty great week for GGG topics. |
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Interesting. Back to see this later.
This is haplogroup X?
it’s a combination of factors ~ not just having related haplogroups.
Wonderful article. One of anthro’s lasting shames is cooperation with the PC “Native American” crowd who immdiately seize and rebury (and hide from examination) any ancient American remains that are clearly of European descent.
Follow up with DNA should certainly help clarify any Mediterranean connection. On a related subject, does anyone know about reports by early explorers that the Mandan Indians spoke Welsh, or something with Welsh words? I think that the exact statement was that a Weshman in the expedition could understand/communicate with them. I seem to recall they were quickly wiped out by smallpox.
Blam?
Now, I've read also that the Lewis & Clark expedition encountered the Mandans and (it was said) did record Welsh words being used by these people.
Also, it is reported that Thomas Jefferson told Lewis & Clark not to mention anything about the Welsh words or any light skinned blue eyed people.
It is also reported that Jefferson's reason was that he was afraid that England would use this connection to make a claim to the western parts of what is now the USA.
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