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Warp drive looks more promising than ever in recent NASA studies
GizMag ^ | October 3, 2012 | Dr. Brian Dodson

Posted on 11/24/2012 1:33:34 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet

The first steps towards interstellar travel have been taken, but the stars are very far away. Voyager 1 is about 17 light-hours distant from Earth and is traveling with a velocity of 0.006 percent of light speed, meaning it will take about 17,000 years to travel one light-year. Fortunately, the elusive "warp drive" now appears to be evolving past difficulties with new theoretical advances and a NASA test rig under development to measure artificially generated warping of space-time.

The warp drive broke away from being a wholly fictional concept in 1994, when physicist Miguel Alcubierre suggested that faster-than-light (FTL) travel was possible if you remained still on a flat piece of spacetime inside a warp bubble that was made to move at superluminal velocity. Rather like a magic carpet. The main idea here is that, although no material objects can travel faster than light, there is no known upper speed to the ability of spacetime itself to expand and contract. The only real hint we have is that the minimum velocity of spacetime expansion during the period of cosmological inflation was about 30 million billion times the speed of light...

(Excerpt) Read more at gizmag.com ...


TOPICS: Astronomy; Business/Economy; Science; Travel
KEYWORDS: nasa; space; spacetravel; stringtheory; warpdrive; warpspeed
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1 posted on 11/24/2012 1:33:47 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet; KevinDavis; SunkenCiv

even if pacetime were barely bent a tiny amount, we could see a prove shoot past Voyager 1 like it was sitting still.

Even a little could see us roam the solar system at will, even if other stars would still be too far away.


2 posted on 11/24/2012 1:39:47 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: SunkenCiv; KevinDavis
science ping. :)

3 posted on 11/24/2012 1:39:57 PM PST by skinkinthegrass (Anger a Conservative by telling a lie; Anger a Liberal by telling the truth....RWR 8-)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
> ... velocity of spacetime expansion during the period of cosmological inflation was about 30 million billion times the speed of light...

And here I thought the speed of light was the universal speed limit. Travel 30 million billion times faster???!?

...

Interstellar Highway Patrol Officer: Do you know why I stopped you?

...

4 posted on 11/24/2012 1:40:41 PM PST by dayglored (Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Acceleration and deceleration stresses would have to be handled somehow- as would unexpected collisions with stray bits of mass in space, unless the bubble has some interesting properties of its own.


5 posted on 11/24/2012 1:41:04 PM PST by Riley (The Fourth Estate is the Fifth Column.)
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To: GeronL; All

..missed it by that much! :-D


6 posted on 11/24/2012 1:41:16 PM PST by skinkinthegrass (Anger a Conservative by telling a lie; Anger a Liberal by telling the truth....RWR 8-)
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To: dayglored
Interstellar Highway Patrol Officer: Do you know why I stopped you?

Actually officer, I'd like to know how you stopped me.

7 posted on 11/24/2012 1:42:22 PM PST by Riley (The Fourth Estate is the Fifth Column.)
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To: skinkinthegrass

heh!


8 posted on 11/24/2012 1:43:18 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Let me be the first to say (in my best Scottish brogue): “We need more power!”


9 posted on 11/24/2012 1:44:50 PM PST by fhayek
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To: dayglored

Even if we could build a vessel that could travel at 0.1% of the speed of light, we can colonize this entire solar system at will.


10 posted on 11/24/2012 1:45:40 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I had a physics conversation with my nephew the other day. It ended with him saying his physics prof would hate me. He teaches basic classical physics that don’t like to be jiggled around.

I simply pointed out that a point in space has no physical speed limit.


11 posted on 11/24/2012 1:45:55 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: dayglored

It’s the universal speed limit for material objects; spacetime isn’t a material object.


12 posted on 11/24/2012 1:46:43 PM PST by coloradan (The US has become a banana republic, except without the bananas - or the republic.)
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To: GeronL
Building a vessel is one thing. Having human beings withstand the G-forces is another thing altogether.
13 posted on 11/24/2012 1:47:04 PM PST by fhayek
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To: Riley; dayglored

“WHy, I simply increased local gravity to infinity and it shut down your drives ability to create forward momentum. Look, you’re still at fulll throttle. Here’s your ticket. Time dialation fine increments may be incurred.”


14 posted on 11/24/2012 1:47:58 PM PST by Darksheare (Try my coffee, first one's free.....)
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To: fhayek

There would be no G-forces inside of the bubble, nothing is actually moving inside the bubble


15 posted on 11/24/2012 1:49:38 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: Darksheare

Hundred bucks for every ten over.

That takes care of the debt problem, right there.


16 posted on 11/24/2012 1:51:03 PM PST by Riley (The Fourth Estate is the Fifth Column.)
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To: GeronL
ggrrr.... :)
17 posted on 11/24/2012 1:51:11 PM PST by skinkinthegrass (Anger a Conservative by telling a lie; Anger a Liberal by telling the truth....RWR 8-)
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To: GeronL

“Even if we could build a vessel that could travel at 0.1% of the speed of light, we can colonize this entire solar system at will.”

How so? The place still has to be livable...


18 posted on 11/24/2012 1:52:25 PM PST by babygene
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Does it require work by community organizers and/or the Muslim brotherhood then no thanks. I’ll wait for alcubierre to develop it himself.


19 posted on 11/24/2012 1:52:25 PM PST by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you)
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To: Riley

Ouch.
“That’ll be twenty petillion dollars, sign here.”


20 posted on 11/24/2012 1:53:02 PM PST by Darksheare (Try my coffee, first one's free.....)
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To: Riley
Acceleration and deceleration stresses would have to be handled somehow

There would be no acceleration; the ship does not move in the normal space. The acceleration (such as stretching of the space) occurs within an infinitely thin border of the bubble, but that border is far enough from the outer walls of the spacecraft.

As an example, take a sailor inside a submarine. The submarine may be moving pretty fast underwater, but the sailor is not feeling any pressure of water - there is some other shell, well away from him, that takes care of that. As far as the sailor is concerned, he is not moving anywhere.

21 posted on 11/24/2012 1:53:50 PM PST by Greysard
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To: GeronL
Vasimr engines are technologically possible with speeds as much as 10% to 15% of light speed possible. The real problem arises with the fact that they need to be VERY large for any kind of real human spaceflight.

Vasimr engines were among the leading prospects for project Deadelus but we're still years from building in space where it would have to be done at enormous cost.

Photobucket
22 posted on 11/24/2012 1:55:22 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Darksheare

At the rate the Dollar degrades- by then you might just be likely have that in your checking account.


23 posted on 11/24/2012 1:55:47 PM PST by Riley (The Fourth Estate is the Fifth Column.)
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To: babygene

Space stations and stuff can be colonies of a sort.


24 posted on 11/24/2012 1:56:12 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: babygene
How so? The place still has to be livable...

Give Obama a few more terms and you will beg for a patch of land on Pluto.

25 posted on 11/24/2012 1:58:06 PM PST by Greysard
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To: Greysard; Riley

Yes.
Supposedly from the point of view of the object being ‘accelerated’, it actually doesn’t move or notice any kind of G force of any kind.
Supposedly.

Whether or not a practical actual working model does what it is supposed ot do, well...
..that would be the interesting part.

As your speed approaches or reaches c, your apparent mass reaches or exceeds that of a planet.
Your actual mass does not change at all.
But you would be gravitationally slinging things around you.
Again, supposedly.
If mankind lives long enough, we may actuially see whether or not this is true.


26 posted on 11/24/2012 1:58:25 PM PST by Darksheare (Try my coffee, first one's free.....)
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To: cripplecreek

goodness!!


27 posted on 11/24/2012 1:58:41 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: Darksheare

And the municipal judge is in the Pleiades.


28 posted on 11/24/2012 1:59:14 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

2012 and I am still walking on the pavement.

psss!


29 posted on 11/24/2012 2:03:16 PM PST by Berlin_Freeper (There goes the dominoes...)
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To: cripplecreek

A simple Infinite Improbability Drive!


30 posted on 11/24/2012 2:04:09 PM PST by jaz.357 (Welcome to hell. Here's your accordion.)
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To: GeronL
Think about this for a second ~ we haven't even colonized much of Siberia, Antarctica or Canada for that matter.

That's a huge amount of territory.

31 posted on 11/24/2012 2:10:17 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: GeronL

The Orion drive is another interesting idea that would also need to be built in space. (mostly because you’ll never be able to launch that kind of nuclear payload into space)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_%28nuclear_propulsion%29

I personally think propulsion advances are the key to true human spaceflight.


32 posted on 11/24/2012 2:11:16 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: muawiyah

But those are really harsh environments and it would cost a lot of money to colonize them. /s lol


33 posted on 11/24/2012 2:13:39 PM PST by TigersEye (Who is John Galt?)
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To: muawiyah

That is true, but unfortunately it’d be impossible to start a new country in those places.


34 posted on 11/24/2012 2:14:17 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: cripplecreek

Zero’s too busy promoting trains and putting people on food stamps.


35 posted on 11/24/2012 2:14:46 PM PST by fieldmarshaldj (Resist We Much)
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To: Greysard

He’ll settle for Uranus.


36 posted on 11/24/2012 2:16:36 PM PST by fieldmarshaldj (Resist We Much)
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To: Greysard; Riley; GeronL; Darksheare
"There would be no acceleration; the ship does not move in the normal space. The acceleration (such as stretching of the space) occurs within an infinitely thin border of the bubble, but that border is far enough from the outer walls of the spacecraft. "

Yeah but, with all this stretching of space going on, what happens when you try to come back the other way?

Does space start getting compressed again? What about "stretch" marks?

You could run into a wrinkle in time.

I may need to go out and sit on a rock in my back yard to ponder this.

37 posted on 11/24/2012 2:19:30 PM PST by NicknamedBob ("P" for present, "C" for coal, right, Bernard?)
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To: fhayek

Think of it this way. You are on the open sea in a boat and not moving but the sea is rushing past you.


38 posted on 11/24/2012 2:20:41 PM PST by ffusco (The President will return this country to what it once was...An arctic wasteland covered in ice.)
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To: NicknamedBob

lol

good questions

Hopefully it won’t permanently damage the fabric of space-time.

(I actually wrote a story once where a technology did just that, tear holes in the fabric of space... I lost it a while back though... drat)


39 posted on 11/24/2012 2:21:35 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: fieldmarshaldj

There is nothing wrong with trains provided there are enough people who want to ride them where they are going.


40 posted on 11/24/2012 2:23:29 PM PST by ffusco (The President will return this country to what it once was...An arctic wasteland covered in ice.)
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To: TigersEye
I've been in Omaha Nebraska at 30 below zero ~ it's pretty harsh, but you live ~ had to tuck in my collar a bit.

We'd probably need to screen for colonists ~ the Russians didn't so they're mostly outta' there! But it is livable, and life can be pleasant no matter where you go.

One of the more interesting things I ran into doing my research into the Skolt Sa'ami ~ and talk about some thin stuff ~ was that the 5,000 or so left behind in Russia in the Kola peninsula were usually small enough, and rigorous enough they were great candidates to be fighter pilots in the Russian air force. Even their best planes had a very tight fit and bad heating ~ these guys could survive. With that they became important rather than just Europe's smallest minority. Modern gear has no doubt made them less special, but you'd need folks like that to deal with Siberia and much of Canada. They exist.

41 posted on 11/24/2012 2:24:22 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: ffusco
There is nothing wrong with trains provided there are enough people who want to ride them where they are going.

LOL That reminds me, I had to wait for a train pulling out of the station on Thanksgiving. 4 passenger cars, 2 of them about half full, the other 2 were completely empty, and an engine on both ends.
42 posted on 11/24/2012 2:29:18 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: fieldmarshaldj

Ha, Ha, HA!


43 posted on 11/24/2012 2:31:03 PM PST by stormhill
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To: GeronL
Someone tried to explain this to me some years ago by putting a dot "A" on the corner of a piece of paper and a "B" on the diagonal corner and folding the paper so the diagonals touched.

He said you don't travel across the paper.

Uh Huh ...

and like the joke about naking your own man from mud, and God said ... "get your own mud" ... who makes the bend in the paper ?

44 posted on 11/24/2012 2:32:12 PM PST by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: GeronL

“(I actually wrote a story once where a technology did just that, tear holes in the fabric of space... I lost it a while back though... drat)”

It probably fell through one of those holes.


45 posted on 11/24/2012 2:32:38 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

“Cosmological inflation”? The price of stuff really went up, then. Used to be you could buy a pound of dark matter for ten or twelve parsnips (parsnips are the universal currency). Along comes cosmological inflation, and you couldn’t touch a teaspoon of dark matter for less than a hundred parsnips.


46 posted on 11/24/2012 2:33:28 PM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: GeronL
We really don't need to go anywhere for quite some time.

A ringed planet and/or some solar sailing in the inner Solar System would allow us freedom from the damn collectivists for hundreds or even thousands of years.

And don't forget the wonderful business opportunities for retirement homes on the moon. (Help I've fallen....Hey, I'm still falling, here! Somebody help.)

47 posted on 11/24/2012 2:36:13 PM PST by Aevery_Freeman (The trouble with the "masses" is that they never achieve the "m")
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To: Darksheare

SSSHHHH! Are you nuts? Don’t let Obama know that there are numbers past the trillions.


48 posted on 11/24/2012 2:37:18 PM PST by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: coloradan

It’s not a speed limit as such. You don’t go up to it and then find you can’t go any faster. It’s more like a horizon that you can never reach. Even in a flat spacetime model there’s plenty of “warping” in the Lorentz Transformation.

I recall that in FARMER IN THE SKY, I believe it was, the young hero questions the spaceship engineer what happens if you reach “almost” the speed of light and then go full blast. In the story, the engineer has no answer, only proving the author’s limited grasp of this subject.


49 posted on 11/24/2012 2:39:18 PM PST by dr_lew
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To: Riley
...unless the bubble has some interesting properties of its own.

Duh. Were talking about warping the fabric of time and space here. I'd say that qualifies.

No "unexpected collisions" as this bubble would not move through space as you seem to think, nor would it accelerate or decelerate. To someone in the bubble it would seem as if they were at one moment one place and a moment later at a location light years away.

50 posted on 11/24/2012 2:39:28 PM PST by John Valentine (Deep in the Heart of Texas)
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