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When Does Live Begin? [Vanity]
FreeRepublic ^ | February 24, 2024 | Reno89519

Posted on 02/24/2024 9:47:21 AM PST by Reno89519

When does life begin? I think most agree that eggs and sperm individually by themseves is not life. By many standards it starts at conception, when they join and become an embryo. Or, is it when there is a heartbeat? Or, later when viable? Or, at birth?

If Christian, then thou shall not kill.

But what does that mean? At conception? Maybe when implanted (but what about in the not to far future, when a baby might be grown in an artifical womb? What about when faked in a mentally ill man?).

Once there is a heartbeat?

Once viable?

Once born?

Maybe even some point after birth?


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KEYWORDS: 0000001crapthread; abortion; antisemite; babykillers; conception; herekittykitty; ibtz; ifyouhavetoask; live; prolife; thenyourenofreeper; vanity; vanitypostedinnews; vikingkitties; whendoeslivebegin; worstopusever; zot
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To: Cletus.D.Yokel
Isn't that always the case? I don't think the technology is to the point were a sperm is injected into an egg. I think they are simply mixed together and some join, as you say, under their own will.

Maybe I'm wrong on this, not sure how far technology reaches today.

21 posted on 02/24/2024 10:43:32 AM PST by Reno89519 (If Biden is mentally unfit to stand trial, he is mentally unfit to be president. He needs to resign.)
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To: Cletus.D.Yokel

Let me ask another way, if the fertilization is forced, is the resulting life fair game to kill? When? Doesn’t that end at birth or is that life always subject to termination?


22 posted on 02/24/2024 10:45:35 AM PST by Reno89519 (If Biden is mentally unfit to stand trial, he is mentally unfit to be president. He needs to resign.)
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To: Reno89519

It’s in the bible:

Live begins where Memorex ends.


23 posted on 02/24/2024 10:45:55 AM PST by BuddhaBrown (Path to enlightenment: Four right turns, then go straight until you see the Light!)
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To: Reno89519

“When does life begin? I think most agree that eggs and sperm individually by themseves is not life.”

No, sperm and eggs are alive. But, by themselves, they are not persons.

When we say “life begins at conception” we are talking about the unique life of an individual human being.

Sure, implantation (in the uterus wall), the development of brainwaves, heartbeats, and the ability to feel pain are significant developments in the womb.

At conception, there is a spark of electricity and a flash of light. Unique DNA is formed. The embryo, from conception, contains the full DNA, 23 pairs of chromosomes, of a living human being.


24 posted on 02/24/2024 10:48:43 AM PST by unlearner (I, Robot: I think I finally understand why Dr. Lanning created me... ;-)
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear

Yea it can be a nightmare. I have seen it.

It’s a calling, what can I say.


25 posted on 02/24/2024 10:50:43 AM PST by Persevero (You cannot comply your way out of tyranny. )
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To: Reno89519

“Once viable?”

Viability is the most nebulous of criteria.

Is a one-year-old baby “viable”?

Not without assistance.

If you drop off a random adult on a deserted island, there’s about a 99.999 percent chance they will die. We’re not so “viable” ourselves.


26 posted on 02/24/2024 10:54:34 AM PST by unlearner (I, Robot: I think I finally understand why Dr. Lanning created me... ;-)
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To: Reno89519

Is COVID-19 a “living” virus even though Anthony Fauci has patents on it?

The question of human life should have been asked and answered before IVF was ever even attempted. If unanswerable, it should have been treated as though human life were involved.

Modern “science” is very disappointing. I believe it has rejected God for no reason, at all.


27 posted on 02/24/2024 11:06:54 AM PST by Empire_of_Liberty ( )
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To: Reno89519

Jeremiah 1:5 NASBS
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations.”


28 posted on 02/24/2024 11:16:08 AM PST by StrictConstructionist
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To: fidelis
great post

I think we are very much on the same page.

We absolutely don't lose our voice
And we should keep fighting .... but unless we can
reestablish a shared ethos we should not let the state be the enforcer of ethical decisions lest we find ourselves in a pickle ...
As with the giblet laws now..... not a shared ethic ... I don't want a law that tells me I have to be near, hire, talk to or .... speak out against the nasty things.

29 posted on 02/24/2024 11:37:29 AM PST by 1of10 (be vigilant , be strong, be safe, be 1 of 10 .)
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To: Reno89519

When does life begin?

I am very against abortion. However, that is a hard question to answer, especially via legislation. Although, I view partial birth abortion as clearly murder, no matter what a legislature says.

I do like the way the original Roe V Wade decision said that the state has an interest in the unborn and that interest grows the closer the unborn comes to being born.


30 posted on 02/24/2024 11:46:13 AM PST by Robert357
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To: Reno89519

A life form which is alive and has human DNA is a human being.

So human life begins when DNA from the sperm and egg unite.


31 posted on 02/24/2024 11:48:00 AM PST by pax_et_bonum (“Killer rabbit jokes have a long tradition in medieval literature.“ - Dr. James Wade)
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To: Persevero

Certainly, at the moment of conception.
At that moment, no other sperm can enter the egg. At that moment, all of the new life’s traits or the blueprint for the person are in place. ALL.
The embryo that is developing is following the blueprint.
The Man and the Woman who have united to cause the life have only one duty to perform. To nurture and love the child. It is an awesome responsibility, not to be taken lightly.


32 posted on 02/24/2024 11:58:08 AM PST by BatGuano (2020 = Stolen Election. Believe it! Molon Labe.)
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To: Reno89519

There is “life,” and there is “a human being.”

They are not the same.

There is the religious angle, and the legal angle. Individual decisions can be made on whatever angles the individual wants. But legal issues are settled differently.

Someone using their (not mine) religious position to force a law on the rest of us is not only incredibly hubristic, it’s a great way to motivate the other, majority, side, into tossing his candidates the heck out of office.

As will happen.

Each state sets their standard for the second question:

“When does a (insert your favorite term) become a human being, with all rights as given by the Constitution and/or States?”

Although so many of the louder voices make it a religious question (and answer), under our Constitutional form of government, religion has very little to do with this LEGAL issue. Other than individuals voting their conscience when presented with the opportunity.

And now one State, Alabama, has set their (temporary) standard with one guy quoting from his religion.

Glad I don’t live there.

Here in Florida, the Governor and Legislature overplayed their hands on this. Outlawed abortion after 6 weeks, when many women don’t even know they’re pregnant.

And now there is a major push to ammend our Constitution to basically forbid ANY law on abortion. And enough signed the petition to get it on the upcoming ballot.

And it will pass, and drive tremendous turnout from dems, Independents, and many Rs who will vote for it. And that turnout will toss some R’s from office.

The tail wagging the dog.

Because it’s a legal question, and most people are tired of the nuts on both sides.


33 posted on 02/24/2024 12:01:52 PM PST by Basket_of_Deplorables (Vivek for VP!!!!)
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To: Basket_of_Deplorables
Before it can become a legal issue, the moral issue has to be addressed. Before there were written laws against pre-meditated murder, there was a general consensus that it was wrong and this was the basis of the law against murder.

Even though it seems clear to me and others that it is rational to conclude that human life begins at conception, it is an unfortunate fact there is doubt or disbelief about this in a large segment of the population. Is it a human life, or isn't it? If it isn't, you can do whatever you want with it. If it is, it should be treated like all other human life. If one simply does not know, it should be given the benefit of the doubt of being human until proved otherwise. It would be akin to seeing a human shaped bag in the middle of the road. If there's a chance there's a human being in there, do you stop or go around it, or just run over it because you don't know? If you are going to err, it's always wise to err on the side of life.

34 posted on 02/24/2024 12:35:32 PM PST by fidelis (Ecce Crucem Domini! Fugite partes adversae! Vicit Leo de tribu Juda, Radix David! Alleluia!)
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To: Basket_of_Deplorables

Opus?


35 posted on 02/24/2024 1:17:23 PM PST by Olog-hai ("No Republican, no matter how liberal, is going to woo a Democratic vote." -- Ronald Reagan, 1960)
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To: Reno89519
Start by considering a chicken's egg. As I recalled from the days of "candling" them, they are rejected from sale when found to be fertilized. Takes about 21 days for the chick to break out I think, remembering from our high school experiment.

I believe that human "conception" actually only considers to have taken place when the morula (abt 8 cells) attaches to the uterus wall and begins differentiating.

At what stage is the fertilized ovum implanted into a surrogate host "mother"?

(written without reading much further than the title)

36 posted on 02/24/2024 3:24:15 PM PST by imardmd1 (To learn is to live; the joy of living: to teach. Fiat Lux!)
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To: Reno89519
To make a point,

Q.: When did Adam's fully formed corpus actually come to life?

A.: When Jehovah Elohim "breathed" spirit into the biomass.

Until then, although perhaps even biologically functioning, was still not spiritually "alive," eh?

And at point does a dying human finally stop "living," hm?

Perhaps never, if the LORD has His way. OSAS.

37 posted on 02/24/2024 3:44:11 PM PST by imardmd1 (To learn is to live; the joy of living: to teach. Fiat Lux!)
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