It's not difficult to understand. But I will move and speak as the Spirit has me to move and speak when the Spirit decides. He is not on the schedule of flesh.
Posted on 09/23/2003 7:50:20 AM PDT by presidio9
No dancing in the aisles or applause in church, please, we're Catholic. And we'd prefer altar boys to altar girls.
Those are some of the warnings contained in the draft of a document the Vatican (news - web sites) is preparing to crack down on what it considers "liturgical abuses" of the mass, the focus of Roman Catholic worship.
According to the authoritative Italian Roman Catholic monthly magazine "Jesus," a draft document urges the faithful to notify their bishop or the Vatican to report suspected abuses.
The magazine released an advance text of the article which will feature in its October edition.
If issued in its draft form, the document, known as a directive, could have wide-ranging ramifications on some worship practices that have come into common use in many developed countries, particularly the United States and in western Europe.
According to the magazine, the draft says the use of girl altar servers should be avoided "unless there is a just pastoral cause" and that "priests should never feel obliged to seek girls for this function."
The Vatican in 1994 gave individual bishops the power to decide whether to allow altar girls in their dioceses. But some conservative Catholics are against altar girls, saying their presence has eroded a traditional recruiting ground for priests.
Traditionalists have also seen altar girls as a foot in the door to a female priesthood, which the church bans.
Italian media reported that the initial reaction to the draft, circulated to the world's bishops, has been negative and the document may have to be at least partially modified.
The draft document also discourages applause during masses and "dances inside the sacred building."
Ironically, Pope John Paul (news - web sites)'s sermons during masses, even those in St Peter's Basilica, are often interrupted by applause.
Some of the pope's masses in Rome and around the world have included dancing, particularly those celebrations marking Asian, African or Latin American events.
The document, drafted by two Vatican departments which oversee doctrine and liturgy, was ordered by the pope who will eventually have to approve a final version.
The draft also warns against the use of non-Biblical language during the mass, such as readings from poets.
It discourages the practice where the faithful receive the wafer and wine at communion.
Catholics believe Christ is present in the wafer and wine but the document says it is preferable just to receive the wafer.
"Self-service" communion is also frowned upon. This appeared to be a reference to the faithful taking the consecrated host directly from the chalice instead of receiving it on their tongue from the hand of a priest.
I am not a woman, but my mother and my wife, along with countless nameless others do not desire to be men and to fulfill their roles.
You have bought into feminism as your premier faith. It is more important to you that you be able to do anything a man can than it is for you to accept God's world as it is.
My mother and my wife and countless, nameless others put their faith in God above feminism.
SD
No. You must be born again. If one truly "accepts Jesus as personal Lord and Savior," then one IS born again. That isn't just saying a few words according to a script. It is repenting of sin, accepting the sacrifice of Christ as payment for our sins, and determining to live a life of obedience to His divine will.
It's just easier to say "saved."
It's not difficult to understand. But I will move and speak as the Spirit has me to move and speak when the Spirit decides. He is not on the schedule of flesh.
Agreed, but what then do you have to say about the majority of priests who are alcoholics?
Rome opposed unauthorized translations, for obvious reasons. Look into the history of Protestant translations of the Bible for some zany ones. Bibles were translated into the vernacular centuries before Luther. The reason why people didn't carry them around is because, prior to the invention of the printing press, a Bible cost the equivalent of three years' wages.
Keep in mind the context of my original post. The point to which I was responding was the assertion that "In Arlington diocese, the worst sex scandal was a priest having coffee with a 24-year-old woman" (#378). Clearly, keeping a secret stash of homosexual porn is worse than "having coffee with a 24-year-old woman".
Further, there is the case I cited of priest having an adulterous relationship and fathering a child with one of his parishioners. My point was, these sorts of scandals are not limited to "liberal" dioceses. "Orthodox" dioceses are not immune to problems.
Groovy, man. Do whatever feels right. We all know our God is the God of the unbridled.
SD
I don't understand any of it any more. I don't feel like he cares about women as much as he cares about his priests.
Fine, but surely you would not make the point that liberal parishes are morally preferrable?
Not immune, but things are worse in liberal areas. Johnstown-Altoona is out of control compared to my next door Greensburg. Leadership and the tone of permissivness towards aberration (in all things) does matter.
SD
Who said the "majority" of priests are alcoholic?
SD
Q. Who was the first person to see Jesus after He rose from the dead?
A. A woman.
God cares as much for women as He does for men. We are all His creation and He loves us, both male and female.
Your question assumes facts not in evidence. That said, I once had an associate Pastor who occasionally quoted the "Blue Book" in his sermons. A priest who is a dry alcoholic isn't a problem. A priest who is an active drunkard is as much a problem as a priest who is an active porn user. Both need to clean up their act.
No I have not.
Nasty remarks aside, I know that there are laws against desecration of churches, cemeteries, mausoleums, etc.
You just said they were. "A building is just a building."
A building is just a building.
Acts 17:24, 25 - God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
Either a structure dedicated for the use of God's people in worship and other ways is different, or it is not. Which is it?
That wasn't clear. But check this out. Here in Dallas, we have homosexual churches.
Is God present in these churches?
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